Order of work in bathroom refit

[nigelad]

Hi
I'm trying to work out what order to do the various tasks involved in refitting our bathroom. I want to remove and replace a bath, sink on pedestal, shower tray and enclosure, replace electric shower with a thermostatic mixer, remove and replace all wall tiles, get upper walls and ceiling skimmed and tile the floor.
Oh and install spotlights and a shower light with extractor fan, so not much to do really

Before you ask, I'm only planning on doing the stripping out myself, and getting tradesmen in to do the rest, but I don't want to pay a middle man lots to subcontract it all if I can help it

Obviously stripping everything out, chasing wall to install new plumbing for the shower , and making good the wall ready for tiling comes first.

Then I'm guessing it would be fit new bath and shower tray?
And then tiling - on to shower tray and bath?
Then install sink [onto part tiled wall] and fit shower enclosure and recessed shower valve and rail onto tiles?

Then skim upper walls and ceiling and installing lighting, and finally put down plywood and tile floor last of all?

What do you reckon - will that work?

 

[tictic]

sounds good mate,when making walls good for tiles get your ceiling done.
no mess to clean out off bath etc..

get floor tiled before sink/pedastel/toilet,installed..no cuts ,better finish.
bath optional.
what walls do you have,dont skimm area to be tiled!
as for floor what substrate do you have as exsisting?

has for shower tray check m.i. to see what substrate it has to sit on?..floor or tiles?

just plumb in shower then when tiled put on wall.

 

[nigelad]

sounds good mate,when making walls good for tiles get your ceiling done.
no mess to clean out off bath etc..

get floor tiled before sink/pedastel/toilet,installed..no cuts ,better finish.
bath optional.
what walls do you have,dont skimm area to be tiled!
as for floor what substrate do you have as exsisting?

has for shower tray check m.i. to see what substrate it has to sit on?..floor or tiles?

just plumb in shower then when tiled put on wall.

Cheers tictic.
So I would be ok installing the toilet and sink ped on top of ceramic floor tiles? Sound like I need to do the floor after shower and bath but before sink. Floor is floorboards with 6mm hardboard and vinyl tiles. Was thinking that I might have to replace boards with 25mm Exterior grade plywood as per advice on this forum - otherwise I could end up with a big step down to carpet in hallway. carpet is currently about 15mm higher than bathroom floor at threshold.
Walls [all brick] are stripped back to concrete render, with bits of skim left. How fussy should I be about areas to be tiled? They are uneven where some of the skim is still left, and have drilled holes, and bits of paint/artex left on at the mo.
Could I get the upper walls + ceiling skimmed before the tiling or is it best after? Want to get them both done at same time
Was gonna sit shower try on floorboards/plywood floor. Sound ok?
Thanks for feedback

 

[jctilingservices]

Dont forget to incorporate a tanking system around your bath and in your shower cubicle mate, defo get the vinyl tiles and 6mm board up, replace with 15-199mm WBP board

 

[nigelad]

Cheers JC.
You think I need tanking even with external brick cavity space walls?
What about the Johnson's kit that trades direct do?

 

[Richard C]

So I would be ok installing the toilet and sink ped on top of ceramic floor tiles?

Yes, best way; finish off with a nice neat bead of silicone afterwards.

Floor is floorboards with 6mm hardboard and vinyl tiles. Was thinking that I might have to replace boards with 25mm Exterior grade plywood as per advice on this forum

That’s what I’d do.

Walls [all brick] are stripped back to concrete render, with bits of skim left. How fussy should I be about areas to be tiled? They are uneven where some of the skim is still left, and have drilled holes, and bits of paint/artex left on at the mo. Could I get the upper walls + ceiling skimmed before the tiling or is it best after? Want to get them both done at same time

You can stick tiles directly over a render base but it needs to be flat or it could make the finished tiles uneven, especially if using large tiles. In your case you seem to have an old, uneven render base coat previously plastered with holes & various bits still stuck to it; I wouldn’t tile directly onto to that. The render must be sound (doesn’t sound hollow) whatever you do or it will have to come off. Two alternatives; get the render base repaired where required & re-skimmed along with the rest of your walls so they are nice & flat but you will need to let the plaster dry out before tiling (around 10 days); don’t try & rush it by tiling too early or it could end in tears. Alternatively you could overboard the render with tile backer boards & tile directly onto those; there are various methods of fixing but, contrary to manufacturer’s instructions, you don’t have to use battens. You could tank as well but it’s not really necessary over backer boards or solid plaster walls in a domestic environment unless it’s a wet room.

Was gonna sit shower try on floorboards/plywood floor. Sound ok?

If it’s going to be a new ply floor, sit it on that or your ply overboard. Stone resin trays should be bedded on a weak mix mortar to give it full support or they can stress crack, this is usually a manufactures warranty requirement.

 

[tictic]

richard c
you say "contary to m.i" as to fix backerboards there are other ways.?
so dont follow m.i. in fixing b/boards?

then in another post/thread you say when using addy/grout "follow" m.i instructions.

am slighty confused can you explain a little further.

as for tanking any wet area o/bath i would advise, as the person doing the tiling is a diyer so i would always advise, belt an braces an all.

i also think sometime in the future alot of house builder will be making this a must in any wet area..o/bath etc,know some local council are looking into doing this for practical and insurance reasons.

as for overboarding floors with backerboards why dont you give some of manufacturers a call bal etc and ask them what is best method.
but as they say differant tile fixers diff..methods.

not havin a pop ere

 

[bathstyle]

Rip up existing flooring in it's entirety then fit 18mm Ply or 18mm Weyroc then overboard with either Hardibacker glued and screwed (rapidset flexible) or plywood.

18mm or 25mm directly onto joist is possible but it requires an Elastomeric adhesive, as per Bals recommendation.

A standard Bathroom is done as follows:-

- Rip out existing Suite/Walls/Floor.

- First fix your pipe work for WC, Basin, Bath, Towel Radiator (pipes should always come out of the wall in this instance)

- Get new Floor down, overboard. Fit noggins at room edges and board joints.

- Make good walls and ceiling. By far the best method for large format tiles is dot and dabbed p/board.

- Fit Bath, Shower tray or any Fitted Furniture.

- Tank Bath /Shower area. Homelux matting or Schluter Kerdi are the best on the Market.

- Tile walls and floor. If wall and floor grout joints aren't getting lined up then walls first, then floor then pop the bottom row of wall tiles in. Nothing worse than seeing a floor tile cut into a bowed or dipped wall)

If grout joints are to be lined up then floor first, it's then much easier to get the wall joints in line as slight adjustments can be made. Work out all your wall and floor cuts out at the same time, one complete canvass.

- Install Basin, WC, Towel Rad, Shower Screen/bath Screen or Modular (wall hung) Basin Unit.

- Apply silicone and fix accessories

 

[nigelad]

Cheers bathstyle
I was hoping not to have to do too much to walls in prep for tiling.
I'll be getting a professional in to do the tiles anyway.
If I was to board the walls, then there would be a big 'step back' to the plastered wall where the tiles stop wouldn't there?
Tiles are about 30cm by 15cm.
Won't tile glue fill the bits where the skim has come off - only 2-3mm deep? Other than that the walls are fairly even.

 

[Richard C]

you say "contary to m.i" as to fix backerboards there are other ways.?
so dont follow m.i. in fixing b/boards?

then in another post/thread you say when using addy/grout "follow" m.i instructions.

am slighty confused can you explain a little further.

MY “contrary to m.i.” comment refers to fixing cement backer boards not addy/grout. The manufacturers say they can’t be dot & dabbed but its quiet a straightforward process; Drywall adhesive bonds well enough to hold the boards in place & then all you do is provide additional “through fixings” back into the wall once it’s dry ; this provides a strong mechanical fixing for the boards. You must fix through the adhesive dabs so need to know where they are but in reality it’s not a problem. They also say you can’t plaster it with Gypsum but you can if you prepare it correctly, they just want you to buy their overpriced “special” plaster. During a discussion with one, I was unofficially told what I proposed would probably be OK & I’ve used it many times, again without any problems.

No problem with the rest, as you say, we all have our own methods; I’ve never had a tile or floor failure so I stick with what I know will work.

 

[kevnurse]

This would be an ideal opportunity to add under-tile heating (with thermostat and timer). Tiled floors can be cold on bare feet. Its not very expensive.

 

[nigelad]

This would be an ideal opportunity to add under-tile heating (with thermostat and timer). Tiled floors can be cold on bare feet. Its not very expensive.

now there's an idea
I already have wiring, isolator and consumer unit RCD from the electric showe, so it wouldn't be too hard.
i'm hoping it wold work directly on a 25mm exterior plywood base?

 

[kevnurse]

i'm hoping it wold work directly on a 25mm exterior plywood base?

Indeed it will. The manufacturer's instructions usually suggest that the wire or mat is embedded in the tile adhesive. You still need to fit the sub-adhesive waterproof membrane as well.

 

[tictic]

if installing undertile heating, cable/matting system dont run it under any whites...then put a slc over it using a plastic trowel then tile.