Outdoor light / two way hallway switch mystery

[dmbeez]

I'm calling for an SOS about a lingering annoyance in my house. Since buying it in 2020 (it's a 2005 build) there has been a persistent issue with the wiring between my entrance hallway and the outdoor light next to the front door. The external light has never worked, essentially.

I had an electrician come out in 2021 and he said that he couldn't get it working, and it's not a massive priority in normal circumstances so I've let it slide with other projects taking priority. Fast forward to today and the external light has been damaged by some strong winds, and I've opted to replace it with something new. I'd like it to be more than an ornament, so here we are.

There has been an occasional quirk over the past 18 months of the outdoor light coming on when the internal hallway light is switched on. When this happens there is a flickering and change of brightness on the hallway light. This hasn't happened in recent months.

The attached pictures show two switches, a simple one way and a two way. I've powered down and detached the hallway light as I feel like there's something amiss with the three core & earth cable. The overall presence of three core & earth cable in red/blue/yellow is throwing me off, too. Until I disassembled things the hallway light was functioning normally and could be switched on or off from both locations. The second switch on the two way switch does nothing. I would like it to turn on the external light, which is not motion sensored.

Hope this makes sense and I thank you in advance for any insights.

 

[chivers67]

The Electrician that came out, did he say why he couldn't get it working? Is there just one cable feeding the outside light?

(BTW Three core and earth is generally used for two way switching}

Flameports Site

 

[dmbeez]

To the best of my knowledge it's the brown & blue wires in the first pic that are going to the outdoor light. Matches what's out there, and something in that box has had the ability to turn it on somehow.

 

[mrsplodge]

Did you take any pictures of the wiring before you disconnected them?

 

[EFLImpudence]

The attached pictures show two switches,

I can only see one - which is a two-way switch.

 

[dmbeez]

Apologies...been a while since I've dabbled. The connected switch is a one gang two way and the one I've taken off is two gang two way.

 

[dmbeez]

Did you take any pictures of the wiring before you disconnected them?

 

[Murdochcat]

try moving the red from L1 to L2 on the right hand switch on the 3rd picture ....

 

[EFLImpudence]

try moving the red from L1 to L2 on the right hand switch on the 3rd picture ....

What difference will that make?

 

[EFLImpudence]

The switches look fine to me. Why did you disconnect them?

 

[Murdochcat]

What difference will that make?

If the switch is worn, the "other" way may work OK - seen that on occasions.

 

[hovertoast]

It looks to me as if the 3 core has been used to get a neutral down to the switch along with a switched live.

@dmbeez do you have a multimeter?

 

[dmbeez]

The switches look fine to me. Why did you disconnect them?

The reason I'm looking into this is that the 2nd or right hand switch is not doing anything to the external light. The hallway light is fine from both locations.

It looks to me as if the 3 core has been used to get a neutral down to the switch along with a switched live.

@dmbeez do you have a multimeter?

I don't have a multimeter currently but can probably get hold of one in the coming days.

I've added a couple of photos of where things are right now. The wiring at the light wasn't very clear in the previous images.

- I have isolated the red cable in the three core at both ends - ceiling & switch. I feel that this could be joined to the live group (brown/brown/yellow) at the ceiling to provide a permanent live to the outdoor switch?
- The live/neutral cable between the switch and outdoor light also isolated temporarily.

The hallway light is functioning as normal with the current wiring - I've treated it like a single two way switch.

Is the next step to connect the red as a permanent live for the outdoor switch?

 

[hovertoast]

With the current arrangement it doesn’t look like you have a neutral at the switch. Before trying to put wires in places you need to confirm that the three core does indeed go directly from the switch to the light, however it strongly looks like it does. You really need to mark up the wires with sleeving/tape but once you’ve verified that the 3 core is what you think it is (using a multimeter) I would do the following up at the light.

Blue in with the neutrals
Yellow as the switch live for the ceiling light
Red as the permanent live for the switch

Then at the switch:

Yellow from the light in with the other yellow on the left hand switch
Red from the light in with the blue on the left hand switch
Blue from the light connected to the blue from the outside light (not needed anywhere else)
You then need a link between the two bottom connections on both switches to take the permanent live to the outside light switch.
Then connect the outside light live to either of the connections on the top of the right hand switch.

Before doing any of this though, you really need to verify the assumptions. Also I’ve written this out pretty quickly so let’s wait for others to confirm my thoughts.

Also, please try and understand how all this works and the principles behind this before doing any of this.

Edit: I’m also a little uncomfortable that the electrician you mentioned couldn’t figure this out as it’s pretty straightforward and makes me think I might be missing something.

Edit: somehow got left and right muddled up there. Now corrected.

 

[SUNRAY]

With the current arrangement it doesn’t look like you have a neutral at the switch. Before trying to put wires in places you need to confirm that the three core does indeed go directly from the switch to the light, however it strongly looks like it does. You really need to mark up the wires with sleeving/tape but once you’ve verified that the 3 core is what you think it is (using a multimeter) I would do the following up at the light.

Blue from the switched live (wago with the brown flex) in with the neutrals
Yellow as the switch live for the ceiling light in place of the blue
Red as the permanent live for the switch In place of the yellow just to tidy things up

Then at the switch:

Yellow from the light in with the other yellow on the left hand switch
Red from the light in with the blue on the left hand switch
Blue from the light connected to the blue from the outside light (not needed anywhere else)

My version:

You then need a link between the RED AND BLUE connection and the 'COM' on the top of BOTH SWITCHES to take the permanent live to the outside light switch.
Then connect the outside light live to either of the L1 or L2 connections on the top of the right hand switch AS APPROPRIATE FOR DOWN = ON OPERATION.

Before doing any of this though, you really need to verify the assumptions. Also I’ve written this out pretty quickly so let’s wait for others to confirm my thoughts.

Also, please try and understand how all this works and the principles behind this before doing any of this.

Edit: I’m also a little uncomfortable that the electrician you mentioned couldn’t figure this out as it’s pretty straightforward and makes me think I might be missing something.

Edit: somehow got left and right muddled up there. Now corrected.

I'm making the same assumptions as to what the various cables are, and happy to be put right.