Outdoor lighting with Pir advice needed

[Mr Sparkle]

I want to install two outdoor lights in the areas marked blue.

I want the lights to be motion activated, so plan to add a Pir sensor.

Would it be best to place the pir

1. above the doors (marked in green).

2. Recessed In the soffit

Or somewhere else? Perhaps above the light?

Would the soffit pir detect motion in the garden or would it be limited to motion directly underneath it?

 

[pcaouolte]

PIRs detect motion best when walking across their field of view rather than moving towards them or away from them.

Most of them can't differentiate between a human and a hedgehog or a car. They see a change in heat source and react to it.

Try to place the PIR where it will see the person who requires the light but doesn't see a road , footpath, swaying bushes, light source or a heating vent in the background. Whatever the position it is likely to be activated by passing animals and strong winds.

Each PIR has a specific angle of view horizontally and vertically and also a range (distance from the sensor, which might be adjustable). These parameters affect the optimum position of the sensor.

Better quality sensors using two different detection methods (dual tech) are available at extra cost. These are better at differentiating between people and animals but are still not infallible.

 

[ericmark]

@pcaouolte has given a very good answer, I personally have given up with PIR's for most of my outside lights, and use smart bulbs instead, LED lights use that little power having them on for an extended time does not cost that much.

The problem with a PIR is it can switch off at most inopportune moment, with me as I was climbing the steps at side of house, hands full, so you have to put everything down to get out phone to use phone light, it does depend on the location of course, and design of your house, but make sure the PIR can be by-passed and turned off, and also lights will take smart bulbs, so you can go that direction at a latter date.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

PIRs detect motion best when walking across their field of view rather than moving towards them or away from them.

Most of them can't differentiate between a human and a hedgehog or a car. They see a change in heat source and react to it.

Try to place the PIR where it will see the person who requires the light but doesn't see a road , footpath, swaying bushes, light source or a heating vent in the background. Whatever the position it is likely to be activated by passing animals and strong winds.

Each PIR has a specific angle of view horizontally and vertically and also a range (distance from the sensor, which might be adjustable). These parameters affect the optimum position of the sensor.

Better quality sensors using two different detection methods (dual tech) are available at extra cost. These are better at differentiating between people and animals but are still not infallible.

That's awesome. Many thanks for the advice.

Never knew about the dual tech PIR. Brilliant!

@pcaouolte has given a very good answer, I personally have given up with PIR's for most of my outside lights, and use smart bulbs instead, LED lights use that little power having them on for an extended time does not cost that much.

The problem with a PIR is it can switch off at most inopportune moment, with me as I was climbing the steps at side of house, hands full, so you have to put everything down to get out phone to use phone light, it does depend on the location of course, and design of your house, but make sure the PIR can be by-passed and turned off, and also lights will take smart bulbs, so you can go that direction at a latter date.

Smart tech!

That's also a great shout too.

Smart lighting and smart switches could be the way forward.

Plenty of options to think about.

 

[pcaouolte]

If you want an up-market, reliable but significantly more expensive system you could look at GJD Detect.

 

[ericmark]

I use google mini's, same idea as Alexa, but cheaper, all the items controller as grouped together in google home, which is just as well, as I seem to be collecting apps. However by selecting rooms, and I have outside as a room, I can use a single command to switch on all outside.

There are smart PIR's and to be frank I have not tried using them, but around my house I have 7 mains powered lights, three original PIR controlled on two switches, two using socket adaptors with smart connections, and two smart bulbs, Also two sets of Christmas lights, and numerous solar lamps.

I am not happy with the solar or/with PIR control. The lights seem to have a life of there own, being triggered by local cats, and in winter running out of battery so lighting is intermittent, but it does mean visitors get some light, if they are lucky.

But the 4 wifi controlled lights have worked very well. And so easy to install, two have simply smart bulbs installed, and two use smart socket adaptors. This was a problem, how to trigger the light with a PIR which can see whole of the route. An over view from where I park the other car shows the problem. The shed masks the light from one light, and apple trees from the other, but between the two lamps we can see our way to the house, but distance too far for a PIR to detect without detecting every cat.

The front of the house not much better, 4 lamps shown on this picture, and there is a solar lamp with PIR where the picture was taken from, the lamp to left of door does not illuminate the steps, you can see hand rail, the white light to right of door does a very good job, the light on right hand corner helps when getting out of car, not to fall down onto path around the house, but in real terms does not help much. There is also a bulkhead lamp to left of house, hard to see, which lights route when parked below house.

We have steps both sides of the house and the final lamp is shown here official the front door, but most don't even know the door is there. I would assume when built there was a pedestrian access with steps to that door, but today you need to pass the back door to get to it, so only used to assess one of the patios.

There is a street light behind third picture, but the trees stop the light, and it switches off at around midnight, so not much help.

My worry is the milkman tripping, all other visitors are normally in daylight, but he has been delivering milk for two years, so I think by now he has found his way around.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

@pcaouolte @ericmark You guys have gone above and beyond. I couldn't be happier with the advice provided.

Both of your suggestions took me down a PIR vs Smart Lighting Rabbit hole

I think Smart Lighting and Switches are the way forward tbh, plus it will be a simpler wiring job for me.

The side of the property (not shown in my original pic) has no activity e.g. motion from humans, animals and no trees etc. So I will put some cheap PIR floodlights from screwfix there.

The rest of the house externally will be smart.

Thanks again guys.