Outdoor Lights -- Timer

[cwhaley]

I have some lights at the back of the house which offer a nice level of lighting for the patio. I like to keep them on overnight as a bit of a deterrent, because when they're off, it's pitch black and secluded at the back of the house where the patio doors are.

I have been remembering to switch them off when I go to work, but one day I'll forget and there will be times when we're not in. They are powered by an FCU spur taken from a ring socket directly below the switch.

I've been looking at timing switches so I can programme when the lights come on and off. Would a switch like the this work? I installed the sockets and lighting circuit in the extension with a neighbour electrician supervising, so I feel I have a 'working knowledge' but I have no idea what the terminals are like on the back of one of these. Can they be installed as a direct replacement to an FCU?

Greenbrook 24 Hour Mechanical Socket Box Timer

• 96 On/Off settings• On/Off/Timed switch• Fits a 25mm deep back box• 230V AC resistive load• Conforms to IEC 60730-1 IEC 60730-2-7 & KEMA

www.toolstation.com

 

[SUNRAY]

Would a dusk to dawn sensor make more sense?

That way you won't need to adjust it throgh the year.

 

[ebee]

One word of caution.
Many years ago I offered an opinion that the PIR Flood type light is best not referred to as a "Security Light".
Although they often add to convenience and safety much of the time if not always, they could conceivably work against you.
My opinion was that whilst about unlawful business Sykes with his swag bag could go about his unlawful business helped not hindered by this wonderful lighting, he had no need to use a little torch.
If on the one hand it`s a well populated busy place then yes Sykes might well be put off and hindered but in quiet lonely places he might find it an advantage. It might still help guard against some innocent person walking into the danger of some badass lurking unseen though.
So I advised to consider them more as a courtesy light.
Of course I was largely put down on this.

A few short years later what happened?
A tyre Depot with such lighting was emptied of all their goods in the compound, the police reckoned that as the compound was round the back rather than in view of the adjacent very busy road, then the lights had helped then with their unlawful task.
I never uttered "I told you so" but I did think it in my head.

I`d usually advise folks to think about both pros and cons of auto/timed lighting.

Nowadays you can use all sorts of technology including apps to vary times and conditions and give the lighting some "random" appearance too, worth a thought.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Taking into account the above advice, there is a range of timed FCU's available...

24hr / 7 Day Fused Spur with Timer Connection Unit

 

[cwhaley]

One word of caution.

Thanks for that, yes I had considered this. It's a very valid argument. I've weighed it up quite a bit over the past month and decided to go for it. Rather than it staying on all night, maybe the best setting would be for the light to stay on until midnight-ish (a few hours after we go to bed), then switch off and maybe back on a few times before sunrise. I'm hoping this would give people the impression we were "at home".

On the approach to the garden (if they decided to hop over the side gate) the would-be scum would set off the lamp by the front door and the Ring doorbell on the drive, then the PIR light down the side of the house (which would be illuminating them while they clambered over the gate) -- so I hope this would put them off.

 

[cwhaley]

Would a dusk to dawn sensor make more sense?
View attachment 313407

That way you won't need to adjust it throgh the year.

It is a good idea, but I like the control over the times and would prefer longer periods of being on.

 

[ericmark]

The timer you linked to does not contain a fuse, so would be an as well rather than a instead, I wanted access lights, and like you wanted them dusk till dawn, but the hours in my case 10 pm to 6 pm unlikely to get visitors either wanted or unwanted, and there are times we are out past 10 pm so wanted a method of override should we be out late, the answer for me was a smart switch.

I have used the tapo (TPLink) switch for a few reasons.
1) It can be linked to door bell so it turns on when door bell is rung.
2) It does not need a neutral.
3) It does not pass current through the bulb when off.
4) If required can be linked to PIR but not done this yet.
It have two batteries 2 x AAA, which means it does not matter what type of bulb it feeds, as it does not pass current through the bulb.

For you this may be too expensive, as first one needs a hub as well, it depends if you are likely to add further devices latter, I have it turn on 4 days of the week at 6 am and off at dawn, to light path for milkman, and all days on at dusk and off at 10 pm, and the light it feeds is PIR controlled. Before fitting the outside light would when on attract moths, which would in turn attract bats, the latter would trigger it so it was flashing on/off all night, now the reduction in on time seems to have reduced moths and the bats, plus the local cats which seemed to think it was good fun to try and catch the bats.

There have been times when the old PIR only control was good, nice to see badgers in the garden, not that one can really stop them. I suppose it depends where you live as to what visitors you get, would not want wild bore in the garden they are very destructive, but we don't get them here, the odd fox maybe, and cats galore.

As to security not found the lights make any difference, the wild life comes in just the same, but human wild life tend to trip over things, and make a racket if no lighting, so outside lights seem to encourage them.

 

[cwhaley]

The timer you linked to does not contain a fuse, so would be an as well rather than a instead, I wanted access lights, and like you wanted them dusk till dawn, but the hours in my case 10 pm to 6 pm unlikely to get visitors either wanted or unwanted, and there are times we are out past 10 pm so wanted a method of override should we be out late, the answer for me was a smart switch.

I have used the tapo (TPLink) switch for a few reasons.
1) It can be linked to door bell so it turns on when door bell is rung.
2) It does not need a neutral.
3) It does not pass current through the bulb when off.
4) If required can be linked to PIR but not done this yet.
It have two batteries 2 x AAA, which means it does not matter what type of bulb it feeds, as it does not pass current through the bulb.

For you this may be too expensive, as first one needs a hub as well, it depends if you are likely to add further devices latter, I have it turn on 4 days of the week at 6 am and off at dawn, to light path for milkman, and all days on at dusk and off at 10 pm, and the light it feeds is PIR controlled. Before fitting the outside light would when on attract moths, which would in turn attract bats, the latter would trigger it so it was flashing on/off all night, now the reduction in on time seems to have reduced moths and the bats, plus the local cats which seemed to think it was good fun to try and catch the bats.

There have been times when the old PIR only control was good, nice to see badgers in the garden, not that one can really stop them. I suppose it depends where you live as to what visitors you get, would not want wild bore in the garden they are very destructive, but we don't get them here, the odd fox maybe, and cats galore.

As to security not found the lights make any difference, the wild life comes in just the same, but human wild life tend to trip over things, and make a racket if no lighting, so outside lights seem to encourage them.

Interesting stuff, thank you for posting.

I'm tempted by the one posted by @RandomGrinch. If the one I posted doesn't have a fuse then I'll steer clear of this. The Tapo switch you've mentioned does sound useful, but maybe not for us. The PIR is a good option, but as I say I like the control a timer would bring. We have a PIR lamp at the front of the house which is set off by anybody walking past or up to the house. This is useful as there is little public lighting and the council changed the lamps from the old reassuring sodium lamps to the LED ones which are notably dimmer.

We do get foxes/cubs/bats, plus the odd hedgehog I've been tracking for the last year or so. Our garden (as well as next doors') is kept dark at night which I like, as it cuts down on light pollution and gives the animals a bit of a break! Keeping just the patio/door illuminated doesn't interfere with the rest of the garden. The up/down lights I have work well as the soffits stop light beaming up into the sky.

 

[ericmark]

My own lighting far from ideal, we had to start with 5 working outside lights, and 2 lights not working, we have quartz halogen at back and useless PIR control, any wind would set them off, and they would switch off at most inopportune time, when walking at side of house with hands full of shopping. So these were replaced with two carriage lamps, wife got them new for £2 each on a clearance sale, both fitted with smart bulbs so we can switch them on while in the car with app on phone.

Front of house 3 lamps hardly used one at front door and one on corner of house, I will guess there was a set of steps to front door, but long gone, so really those lamps only used if walking around the house, Colvid exercise route.

Lamp at back door which is door everyone comes to, lights the door, but not the drive, so fitted one to corner of house which would light drive if wife's car was not parked there, so it was SWA under the brick sets to the pond to a pedestal lamp which does light the drive and route to front door, so two lights really redundant when that one was fitted. And one at side of house needs replacing but now at least works, so 3 x Smart Bulbs, 2 x Smart socket adaptors, and one smart switch control 6 of the 8 lights.

Lucky google home combines them all onto one app, so one click turns on 6 lights from the car, and voice control turns them all off when in the house. Just as well as three makes of smart bulb.

The problem is there is no best make, each has features the others don't, the Wiz bulb fades out, so not plunged into darkness, but no dusk till dawn. And the list goes on. Since they last for a long time, it will be a long time before I can reduce them too all one make.

 

[ebee]

Sounds like a pretty good combination Eric, yes smart tech etc etc does open up the possible combinations for timing/manual/auto more so than the original PIR floods and lanterns which were in turn the high tech spec of their day. The world is yer lobster

 

[ebee]

PS dont try to expect an answer if you telephone any organisation exceeding three staff and expecting an answer before you next but one birthday though. It used to happen in the 60s, 70s, 80s but in these high tech days, never.
What we used to term third rate, third world, banana republic response has become ourselves of today, are becoming as uncivilised as a Untied States of Amiracle sort of country?

A few of us on here might remember a time when things were proper

 

[morqthana]

A few of us on here might remember a time when things were proper

 

[ebee]

 

[ericmark]

A few of us on here might remember a time when things were proper

Oh yes I remember the Clarks shoes advert "And according to mummy, when I grow up, I will be a proper little madam."

I fought against hi-tech, I know how to program a PLC, never could get my head around a PIC. But the problem was when it goes wrong who fixes it? Loads of commercial electricians work with PLC's and they get paid a good wage, they are not likely to want to work for the in comparison the pittance paid to domestic electricians and also unlikely to be scheme members. So can't do the odd job even if they want to.

Yes I remember filling the dash pots in star/delta starters, and when variable speed motors were DC. The start of the change came with the front loading VCR, and the need to waste less power to keep it cool, now the switched mode power supply is the norm.

Lights have changed so much since the days of the tungsten filament, the main thing is they produce less heat, so electronics can be built into the bulb. This is what one sees today inside the bulb, this was a GU10. We can get bulbs with built in PIR, changing colour, changing colour temperature, dusk till dawn, fade in and out, and the old dimmer switch is rather useless today as when dimmed by them there is no change in colour to give the ambiance.

We can't buy tungsten and with so little heat using LED in the same fitting outside can mean water ingress. We have no option we must move with the times. Wonder what the little madam looks like now?

 

[justigator]

I have a couple of dusk-to-dawn LED lights, one inside the house and one outside my front door, as well as a light on a timer inside in another location. I understand the point about it being theoretically better to have random periods of lighting during dark hours but, realistically, how many burglars of ordinary homes bother watching the place, perhaps for hours, before doing whatever they do (ringing the doorbell?) and then kicking the door in if they think the place is empty? PS both LEDs have lasted over four and a half years with nightly operation.