We are new to this so hope someone may be able to help. We are currently converting a 3 storey Victorian semi into a B &B. It used to be a B &B until 1996 and has been a private residence since then. No promblems with planning but building regs have put a real spanner in the works. They are insisting that we either install lobbies to every room on the grounf and first fllor or install a sprinkler system. lobbies are not an option as they would not fit in some rooms and would compromise the buildings arcitecture. A sprinkler system is very expensive and may not be possible with our current mains water supply. We were planning to fit a full L2 fire detection system, emergency lighting, and fire doors but building regs say this is not enough. He quotes clause 4.34a at us all the time as needing lobbies because we are more than 1 floor above ground level. To compound the issue when we were buying the property all he said we needed was mains smoke alarms and fire doors but he denies this now. Anyone got any ides on how we can persuade him we can conform to Part B regs? Thanks
Part B Building Regs
- Thread starter TimandFi
- Start date
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In my experience BC will very rarely back down on what's written in the documents with regard to Part B especially in what is effectively a 3 storey hotel. Its very hard to advise without a full set of plans tbh, is he approachable or unhelpful? Whilst he may have given you bad advice before you purchased it, it was exactly that; bad advice. Sorry 
Hi
yes do have a copy of the building regs and we do feel that we can achive the overall requirement . We are happy to do things like use the fire proof varnish on the wooden staircase and install more things to help extract smoke via the windows. Also think he needs to look at things in terms of the limited numbers of people in the property, we are talking a max of 12 people including ourselves, a tenth of numbers suggested in the regs for the floor space. Is it reasonable to offset one against another?
yes do have a copy of the building regs and we do feel that we can achive the overall requirement . We are happy to do things like use the fire proof varnish on the wooden staircase and install more things to help extract smoke via the windows. Also think he needs to look at things in terms of the limited numbers of people in the property, we are talking a max of 12 people including ourselves, a tenth of numbers suggested in the regs for the floor space. Is it reasonable to offset one against another?
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hi breezy
yes definately 4.34a about having to install protected lobbies or corridors to all but the top floor and basements. This is in part b volume 2 properties other than dwelling houses. To give you an idea of what the building guys says..see his last mail to me below:
The need for a protected escape stair is described in 4.31 and 4.32
As it reads in 4.34 "an escape stair needs the added protection of a
protected lobby or protected corridor"
This means that when leaving the staircase enclosure (this includes all
landings connected to the staircase that are not separated from it by a
fire door) you need to pass through a fire door into a "protected lobby
or corridor" once in the lobby or corridor you need to pass through
another fire door to enter the room.
Protected stairs, corridors and lobbies etc are three separate things
their definitions are in the back of the document on page 143.
Any thoughts?? thanks
yes definately 4.34a about having to install protected lobbies or corridors to all but the top floor and basements. This is in part b volume 2 properties other than dwelling houses. To give you an idea of what the building guys says..see his last mail to me below:
The need for a protected escape stair is described in 4.31 and 4.32
As it reads in 4.34 "an escape stair needs the added protection of a
protected lobby or protected corridor"
This means that when leaving the staircase enclosure (this includes all
landings connected to the staircase that are not separated from it by a
fire door) you need to pass through a fire door into a "protected lobby
or corridor" once in the lobby or corridor you need to pass through
another fire door to enter the room.
Protected stairs, corridors and lobbies etc are three separate things
their definitions are in the back of the document on page 143.
Any thoughts?? thanks
Isn't that refering only to "Hospitals and other residential care premises"?
But would it be a major problem for you to 'box' in the staircases by putting a fire door top and bottom and something like a fire resistant glass wall between floor and ceiling? Each bedroom has its own fire door.
But would it be a major problem for you to 'box' in the staircases by putting a fire door top and bottom and something like a fire resistant glass wall between floor and ceiling? Each bedroom has its own fire door.
unfortunately cannot block the staircase in. it is the major feature of the property, a victorian mahogony staircase with a dog leg to the first floor landing. We could put a firedoor at the botton of the staircase to the second floor but building regs were not interested in that. Why did you think the clause only applied to hospitals?
Breesy, you're looking at the old edition which is superseded by the 2006 version; http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_App_Doc_B_v2.pdf
Tim, its simply saying if theres a fire in a bedroom you need to take extra measures (ie a lobby between the bedroom and the escape corridor) to protect the only escape route available to the other ocupants of the building. Depending on the size/type of the project (it varies from one area to another) it may well need approving by the Fire Brigade Fire Officer who will be even more scrupulous. When safety is concerned building control are highly unlikely to back down, as unlikely as it may be, if a few occupants burn to death the subsequent investigation will lead back to the building control officer’s approval, why should he stick his neck on the line?
I'm not aiming to cutt corners here just something which is fair and reasonable to the size and age of the property and scale of business. My point is that the document states that no particular method has to be adopted if the requirement can be reached so surely if I demonstate this by iother methods? To get 12 people out of a building will not take 30 minutes and if the issue is smoke ingress to the escape route then is upgrading fire doors to 60 mins an option? Equally why are 30 min fire dorrs not OK?
You really need to sit down with the officer with a set of drawings existing and proposed, thats why I asked you how approachable he is, its hard to comment on what he might or might not accept, normally they're very helpful. Believe it or not there is logic behind the building regs and I expect he will be able to justify the requirements with good reason. There is no definitive answer, whenever I put building reg packages together, if they're at all complicated I'll go through it with BC before its submitted. Sorry.
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