Part P Northern Ireland

[Nope]

I’ve heard it said that Part P doesn’t apply in Northern Ireland. Can someone confirm if this is the case?

And if it doesn’t apply then what does that mean for the DIYer?

 

[Risteard]

I’ve heard it said that Part P doesn’t apply in Northern Ireland. Can someone confirm if this is the case?

And if it doesn’t apply then what does that mean for the DIYer?

There is a Part P to the Building Regulations in the Six Counties, however this relates to "Sanitary appliances, unvented hot water storage systems and reducing the risk of scalding" and has nothing to do with electrical safety. So in terms of what you're presumably asking, then no - it doesn't exist.

 

[Deleted member 267285]

Part P only applies to England and excepted energy buildings in Wales. Have a look at this: https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/find-an-electrician/building-regulations/northern-ireland/

 

[plugwash]

Part P only applies to England and excepted energy buildings in Wales.

AIUI part P applies in both England and Wales, but when it comes to the associated notification requirements (which everyone calls "part P" even though they perhaps shouldn't), wales is still on the "old" rules.

 

[Deleted member 267285]

AIUI part P applies in both England and Wales, but when it comes to the associated notification requirements (which everyone calls "part P" even though they perhaps shouldn't), wales is still on the "old" rules.

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted the wording in the document or it’s written somewhere else?

 

[Murdochcat]

2010 version for Wales
2013 version for England

 

[EFLImpudence]

Part P of The Building Regulations, England and Wales:

That's it. There is no more.

Anything else written about it is not Part P.

 

[plugwash]

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted the wording in the document or it’s written somewhere else?

It looks like Wales now has it's own version of approved document P but it is substantially similar to the original English version. In particular, unlike the current english versions it still reffers to BS7671:2001 with amendments 1 and 2. It also still contains the reference to "an equivalent standard approved by a member of the EEA" which is no longer in the English version. Finally it still reffers to the "old" notification rules as the "new" notification rules were specific to England.

https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2019-05/building-regulations-guidance-part-p-electrical-safety.pdf

 

[EFLImpudence]

I would presume that Wales did not bother to change anything when they decided to stay the same in 2013, unlike England who almost (unfortunately) did away with all the notification rules.

Approved Document P is just a book 'wot sumwun rote' to explain the notification rules regarding electrical work because half a page of the actual regulations is too difficult to understand.

 

[plugwash]

I would presume that Wales did not bother to change anything when they decided to stay the same in 2013

That does appear (other than apparent clerical changes due to regulation number changes) to be the case.

Approved Document P is just a book 'wot sumwun rote' to explain the notification rules regarding electrical work because half a page of the actual regulations is too difficult to understand.

My understanding is that the approved documents are supposed to be government advice on how to follow the building regulations. They don't carry as much weight as the regulations themselves but the regulations themselves are vauge to the point of useless, so where else are we supposed to turn to answer the question "how good is good enough"?.

 

[EFLImpudence]

My understanding is that the approved documents are supposed to be government advice on how to follow the building regulations.

Maybe. They state they are just guidance.

Why not just follow The Building Regulations?

They don't carry as much weight as the regulations themselves but the regulations themselves are vauge to the point of useless, so where else are we supposed to turn to answer the question "how good is good enough"?.

Is what you are saying that the regulations are so vague and useless that someone else has to guess what they really mean?

How do they know?

Why don't they write the regulations?


Don't forget we are not talking about BS7671 (the OSG explains that ) but merely the (now in England) three notifiable items.

 

[JohnW2]

My understanding is that the approved documents are supposed to be government advice on how to follow the building regulations. They don't carry as much weight as the regulations themselves

That's how it is with ,many/most of the Approved Docs (and was slightly the case with the original {2006} version of Approved Doc P. However, the current (2013 for England) version say essentially nothing about "how to follow the Building Regs (in an electrical sense), being almost entirely about regulatory, administrative, legal and logistical matters. ....

... but the regulations themselves are vauge to the point of useless, so where else are we supposed to turn to answer the question "how good is good enough"?.

As above, in the case of Part P, the Approved Doc is just as useless as is (the one sentence which is the entirety of!) Part P itself!

It really is stretching things a lot to actually regard this as any meaningful form of 'regulation' of electrical work!

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

That's how it is with ,many/most of the Approved Docs (and was slightly the case with the original {2006} version of Approved Doc P. However, the current (2013 for England) version say essentially nothing about "how to follow the Building Regs (in an electrical sense)

The current (England) version of approved document P says.

Electrical installations should be designed and installed in accordance with BS 7671:2008 incorporating Amendment No 1:2011.

Seems pretty clear to me. It delegates the details to "how to follow the building regs (in an electrical sense)" to a specific version of BS7671.

Nevertheless, despite the government guidance clearly referencing a particular edition of BS7671, electricians seem to feel they have to follow the latest version. I'm not sure if this is just caution on the part of Electrians or if it is something they are pushed into by the schemes they are pushed into joining.

 

[JohnW2]

The current (England) version of approved document P says. ....

electrical installations should be designed and installed in accordance with BS 7671:2008 incorporating Amendment No 1:2011.

Seems pretty clear to me.

It would be fairly clear if that sentence was all that the document had to say on the matter. However, I think that 'clarity' diminishes appreciably when one reads another sentence in the same document, which says:

Note that there may be other ways to comply with the requirements - there is no obligation to adopt any particular solution contained in an approved document.

It delegates the details to "how to follow the building regs (in an electrical sense)" to a specific version of BS7671.

It does, and this is a very common situation in legislation and related documents, which I used to think was pretty odd - at first sight, it would seem to make far more sense for the legislation/whatever to referr 'the edition current from time to time' or something like that.

However, I have in the passed discussed this with a friend of mine who has recently retired after have for many years, been a lawyer working for the government involved in the drafting of legislation (and related things). She explained that, whilst there are no hard and fast rules, it was, in general, felt highly desirable that those who drafted, debated and enacted legislation etc. (theoretically all the way up to the Monarch) should be able (if they so wished) to have a full and complete understanding of what they were 'signing up for'.

Hence, when legislation refers to other legislation, Regulations, Standards etc. it nearly always does so specifically in relation to 'versions' available for everyone to see prior to enactment of the legislation.

She explained that if the legislation were written in such a way that any future revisions/amendments/new editions/ whatever would automatically come to be applicable to the legislation in question, then the original legislators would essentially be signing a 'blank cheque', such that the requirements of their legislation might effectively change in the future (maybe not to their liking) as a result of changes to other things that were beyond their control.

That explanation made some sense to me, but perhaps not to everyone!

to Nevertheless, despite the government guidance clearly referencing a particular edition of BS7671, electricians seem to feel they have to follow the latest version. I'm not sure if this is just caution on the part of Electrians or if it is something they are pushed into by the schemes they are pushed into joining.

As you say, some people are constrained to work to current regs by the trade organisation of which they are a member. However, as for the others, perhaps they actually want to 'work to the current edition of the Wiring Regs / BS7671 (just as they did before the days of Part P), even if that goes beyond what would be required to satisfy the Building Regs?

Kind Regards, John