part p

[melpoly]

With nothing to do over the jubilee week we decided to finally do up our kitchen. we were going to fit all the cupboards ourselves and then move the cooker point from one side of the room to the other, going under the bathroom floorboards and feeding it back down and making it shorter. I looked online this morning to check a couple of things and saw that i can't do it without part p. AND that a lot of electricians see it as a pointless course to go on..... what's a girl to do now!?

 

[GaryMo]

..... what's a girl to do now!?

Employ the services of an electrician who's a member of a competent persons scheme so he can self notify the work and provide you with a minor electrical installation works certificate.

 

[blackranger]

You are no longer considered competent at moving a fixed cable from a to b due to various legislation.

You must now line the pockets of a sparky.

Thats the rules.

They are considered competent therefore they are the only people that can do the job succesfully.

It would be dangerous to isolate,check the cable for damage, re-route it, cut then reconnect the socket on otherside of room. Cause thats just dangerous because of the unknown. Dont do it or the PART P inspectors will be round.

 

[GaryMo]

They are considered competent therefore they are the only people that can do the job succesfully.

There's nothing wrong with a DIY'er carrying out the work if they're competent (defined by qualifications and experience), have the required test equipment which can cost in excess of £500 and notify the intended work to Building Control before proceeding which can also around £200.
I'd say it's cheaper to use a qualified electrician in this case.

 

[melpoly]

Thanks, hopefully will get someone around this week. :/

 

[blackranger]

They are considered competent therefore they are the only people that can do the job succesfully.

There's nothing wrong with a DIY'er carrying out the work if they're competent (defined by qualifications and experience), have the required test equipment which can cost in excess of £500 and notify the intended work to Building Control before proceeding which can also around £200.
I'd say it's cheaper to use a qualified electrician in this case.

Show me 5 sparks that have all the correct test equipment ill show you 1 that does not.

Theres a lota sparks that would not bother even getting the test equip out for moving a cable from a to b. let alone do some paperwork for it.

however i also know a spark that would want to test half the system before even touching the cable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I looked online this morning to check a couple of things and saw that i can't do it without part p.

No - you can't do it without complying with Part P, which is a part of the Building Regulations:



A lot of electrical work in kitchens is notifiable - see Part 3 and Schedule 4.

There's a useful article in the Wiki: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part-p.


If your description of the extent of the work you're doing is accurate and complete then you could argue that it's not notifiable as you aren't adding anything or installing any new cabling.


But not using an electrician will mean that you won't be able to get any testing done.

Also, is the cooker circuit RCD protected? When you bury the cable in it's new route the Wiring Regulations will require it to be. See //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls.

AND that a lot of electricians see it as a pointless course to go on.....

Part P is not a course, it's a part of The Building Regulations.

Any electrician who is a member of a Competent Person scheme can self-certify compliance with the Building Regulations.


As ever, personal recommendations are always the best way to find a reputable tradesman, but if you're having to go ahead without much in the way of those, or references, don't put any store by registration itself - sadly it is possible to become registered with woefully inadequate qualifications and zero practical experience. You don't have to spend long here to see people cropping up who are registered and "qualified", but who are clearly seriously incompetent in reality and who should not be charging for their services.

You are looking for someone to rewire part of your kitchen, and it may surprise and dismay you to learn that it is quite possible to become a "Competent Person" without ever having done that before, and without having acquired any of the practical skills needed to do it without half-destroying it in the process.

It's your money, possibly £'00s of it, and you have every right to ask prospective tradesmen what their qualifications and experience are. Just being listed here is not a good enough guide. No genuinely experienced electrician, with the "full set" of C&G qualifications will mind you asking - in fact he will wish that everyone was like you.

I feel sorry for people who have been misled by training organisations and (shamefully) the Competent Person scheme organisers into thinking that a 5-day training course, a couple of trivial examples of their work and some basic understanding of how to use test equipment will make them an electrician, but not sorry enough to agree with them trying to sell their services to Joe Public.

 

[GaryMo]

Show me 5 sparks that have all the correct test equipment ill show you 1 that does not.

Theres a lota sparks that would not bother even getting the test equip out for moving a cable from a to b. let alone do some paperwork for it.

They're not competent electricians then.
I suggest the OP hires the services of a competent electrician, not a cowboy.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You are no longer considered competent at moving a fixed cable from a to b due to various legislation.

Not true.

The law requires that you be sufficiently competent to be able to make reasonable provision in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.

Do you have a problem with that?

You must now line the pockets of a sparky.

Not true.

Dont do it or the PART P inspectors will be round.

That's unlikely.

But any electrical work which does not comply with Part P could be a danger to anyone in the house, and anything not notified which should have been could cause problems when selling the house.

 

[Chri5]

You are no longer considered competent at moving a fixed cable from a to b due to various legislation.

You must now line the pockets of a sparky.

Thats the rules.

They are considered competent therefore they are the only people that can do the job succesfully.

It would be dangerous to isolate,check the cable for damage, re-route it, cut then reconnect the socket on otherside of room. Cause thats just dangerous because of the unknown. Dont do it or the PART P inspectors will be round.

Don't be such a k0ck.

So you'd move gas then?

It might be a different skill set to us sparks, but rules is rules. So why we're the rules laid down in the 1st place?

Because the UK Gov decided that gas and the electrical industry was over populated with peeps that didn't do a proper job. Silly things like injury, fire, death happened. So the general idea was to prevent such things.

So through regulation things were changed and that was my and my fellows fault then? We bribed the UK gov to set the system up as it is so we could then charge whatever we wanted to do work?

I find your remarks insulting, offensive and just a tad bitter.

If you have the skills DIY, if the property is fire damaged or your wife and kids are harmed by work you haven't done correctly then maybe you'd understand why the rules were created in the first place.

I accept that electrical work isn't rocket science, but please (once and for all) accept that it isn't the sparks forcing you to comply with the system, it is the system.

Don't worry, do the work yourself and when the house burns down see what your property insurer decides regarding pay out. Do the work yourself and someone dies, again the insurer won't pay and a manslaughter charge will be forthcoming.

As for charges, a van, some tooling, a course or two, some liability insurance, a scheme membership, lost work time due to surveys and quotes means I'm down £5k net or £7k gross before the working year starts.

£25 ph x 40 hours is £1k pw x 36 weeks a year ( rest is lost time, bh, holiday, training, admin, suppliers etc) is £36k pa. About £30k net, less the £5k mentioned above gives me £25k a year.

Now let's talk pension, the lads uni fees, the mortgage....

Hardly a fortune, and the reason my rate is what it is, well it might have something to do with being competitive and not wanting to sit on my hands all the time.

So please, stop the child like digs about wealthy sparks, and you as a punter being ripped off.

Next time you see your GP ask them why they earn £120k a year, and retire on a golden goodbye of £205k tax free and a pension of £75k a year. After all that is your tax money, if you pay any.