Permitted development question...

[sotal]

I've had a search but can't find a definite answer on this one.

I'm looking at a house to purchase. It is in the greenbelt but doesn't have any specific restrictions applied to it.

The house is quite narrow (approx 4m) but has a single storey lean to along one side (I believe it to be original to the house it is certainly over 100 years old.

To the rear of the house is an attached garage which also has the lean to part, so it is approx 6m x 4.1m.

I would like to knock down the garage and rebuild it 2 storey matching in and continuing the current roof. So this would in effect give a 6x4m downstairs room and a 4x4m bedroom above.

Would that be permitted development?

If not would it be permitted to do the same but only 3m back? I've seen the restriction on 3m when building a rear 2 storey extension but I wondered if we could exceed this when replacing an existing building.

In addition to that is it possible to also do a single storey lean to on the other side of the house to the existing one? This would go across the extension mentioned above and then continue. The main purpose to this is to give better proportions to the rooms. It would probably be 9m long and between 1.5m and 2m wide. It wouldn't go as far as the front of the house as it would need space to drive into the drive.

Thanks

 

[jeds]

Do a sketch of the existing floor plan and mark what you want to build in a dashed line. Do the same for elevations. Mark them with principle dimensions and post them here. You'll get a more sensible answer.

 

[^woody^]

If the property still has PD rights, then you can build to the PD criteria.

 

[sotal]

With permitted development.

What counts as the front of the house? Is it the side closest to the road or the side with the main entrance into the house?

In effect this house is turned 90 degrees to the road.

Thanks

 

[^woody^]

It can depend. Generally it will be the elevation facing the road, but it depends on the actual siting, the features and adjacent properties.

 

[sotal]

It can depend. Generally it will be the elevation facing the road, but it depends on the actual siting, the features and adjacent properties.

Thanks,

It doesn't have much in the way of neighbours.

The house itself is long but narrow. The edge closest to the road is 4m wide but then extends to 6.3m wide further back.

When looking at this side of the house, the main entrance is on the left side. To the left of the house is the garden/drive followed by fields. The next 2 fields belong to the house, then there are another 10 or so fields before the next neighbour.

To the right is what I would call the back of the house. There isn't much between this and the boundary. The boundary fence is 1.2m beyond the widest part of the house. Beyond the fence is just fields and the road bends around the far side of those fields.


To the rear of the building (from the road), is an attached garage, then a covered walkway, then an animal shed, then a hay shed. It is all joined together.

The very front is 4m wide but after a couple of meters it is then 6.3m wide on the ground floor but continues at 4m wide for the first floor. All of the outbuildings etc are 6.3m wide.

Directly across the road is another paddock so no neighbour directly opposite. There are 3 houses along that stretch of road on the other side though. 2 opposite the fields that come with this house and 1 opposite the field to the right.

I'm going to try and sketch it up, but it won't be perfect.

 

[^woody^]

It will come down to what it looks like, picture is worth a thousand words and all that.

 

[sotal]

This is the existing ground floor and first floor. The measurements aren't perfect as some are measured by me, some are taken from the listing, some are guesses based on other measurements etc. The house also doesn't seem to be perfectly square so sometimes it depends on where the measurements were taken. I've also guessed the thickness of walls.

The front part is mostly stone construction or certainly faced with stone, from the second room back it is brick with render over.

The first floor is smaller as the back part is single storey. I don't think I updated the measurements of the single storey part, but it should have been 2.3m on the outer dimension, I guessed it a bit under.

I'll post up my proposed changes in a sec...

 

[sotal]

Proposed ground floor and first floor.

So in effect the existing attached garage would be replaced with a 2 storey extension and then that 2 storey extension would also extend an extra 2m to what I would call the side of the property.

The ground floor would also have a single storey 2m extension across the main entrance and the living room.

I'm not 100% finalised on the layout yet, but this would give the basic structure and it gives us enough room.



With regard to the principal elevation, the permitted development document says...

“Principal elevation” – in most cases the principal elevation will be that part of the house which fronts (directly or at an angle) the main highway serving the house (the main highway will be the one that sets the postcode for the house concerned). It will usually contain the main architectural features such as main bay windows or a porch serving the main entrance to the house. Usually, but not exclusively, the principal elevation will be what is understood to be the front of the house. There will only be one principal elevation on a house.

Where there are two elevations which may have the character of a principal elevation, for example on a corner plot, a view will need to be taken as to which of these forms the principal elevation.

The road (single width country lane) - is to the right of the plans. There is no bay on the front but I'm assuming that as it lacks any real architectural features which would suggest the front, that the side closest to the highway would be classed as the front?


I'm fairly sure that from reading the PD rules, what I would like to do would not be classed as PD as it would fall foul of the following...

The 2 storey extension goes back 4.1m (replacing the garage which is already there at that size)

I'm not sure if the 2m coming out would cause an issue too, as it is 2m extra from the existing building line - the fact that it is 2 storey at this point probably would cause an issue.


So that's basically it - so first question - is that likely to get planning permission? (The other 3 houses on that stretch of road have all had planning permission for various extensions granted)


Second if I purchase this property and fail to get planning permission to do what I propose, then can I then just use the permitted development? If I can what is the size that I could create? Would I be able to do the following... Replace the 4.1m garage with a single storey extension - effectively converting the garage to a room (but would need rebuilding), then could I also have a 3m 2nd storey above it? Would I then be able to have a single storey 2m extension right down the side including down the side of what was the garage? Or would I even be able to keep the 2m part coming forward?

I think the two points I'm finding it difficult to understand are:

Which way is definitely the front and the rear - I think I've got that sorted above.
If the existing attached garage/toilet/coal store is counted as the original dwelling or not and the implications that has for permitted development.

 

[sotal]

I tried the local planning department and now have a more in depth informal appointment booked for later in the week.

From what I could tell from the conversation I had today.

The garage would count as part of the original dwelling house provided it wasn't added after 1948 - I don't know how I can verify this.

The 2 storey part at the side wouldn't be permitted.

The rear extension above the existing single story - the person I was speaking to couldn't answer this one. He thought that 3m would definitely be allowed, but 4m was arguable, as technically we are putting a single storey extension above another and neither are going beyond the original rear wall of the dwelling.

A single storey 2m side extension should be allowed.

The only other downside is that any first floor windows on a side elevation would have to be obscured glass for privacy, but there is nothing to be private from and the other windows already at this height are clear and face the same direction.

So it is perhaps doable to nearly the same size under permitted development. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I think I would still go for planning permission anyway but I'm keen to have a backup under permitted development in place before I purchase.