Permitted development

[akist]

I am starting a new thread to ask a very specific question about building with and without planning permit.

We have a planning permit to build a side and front extension to a bungalow. It was granted 3 years ago and is about to expire. We then applied for a minor amendment where we re-position the front door and a few windows, and that was granted a few weeks ago, very close to the original planning's expiry.

I have agreed with a contractor/builder to undertake the work of building the extension foundations to DPC level which would be proof enough that the construction has started. He/I have instructed a firm of building control surveyors and they gave notice last afternoon and they have asked us to wait 5 working days to hear back from the council, and if we do not hear back then we are good to go.

We have no structural plans yet and the person that was working on it seems to have gone AWOL so we may need to employ someone else, which will all take significant time.

I wanted to add a utility and a day room to the side of the side and front extension - it would have a flat roof and not be part of the main house structure/roof. However we have not yet applied for this (planning) as there has been no time and there was a suggestion that we might not need to if it were "permitted development".

I would like to build all the foundations in one go, ie the side extension plus the additional utility + day rooms. I was not sure if the building control surveyors might take exception to the added foundations as they do not appear in the approved plans.

thanks

 

[Notch7]

Im not sure that adding to a proposed structure could be deemed PD, but without drawings to see what is going on its not possible to say.

It sounds like you may have instructed a private building control company. They wont be bothered if its bigger, although they may charge you more. All you would need to do is advice them what you are doing. Although TBH, I doubt if the building inspector that visits will even check against the plans submitted, unless there are complications like drain issues or foundation complications.

 

[tony1851]

1. The approved inspectors don't have to wait 5 days before 'hearing back from the council'; all they have to do is give the council a minimum
5 days notice that they are taking on the building control function; councils don't necessarily respond.

2. Whether or not the additions you propose would amount to PD is difficult to say without seeing drawings.

3. There is nothing too stop you building additional foundations, as long as the inspector can see them. From experience, I would say they would be unlikely to advise the council of the additional work you propose, but would probably be more concerned about getting an addition to the fee they initially agreed.

 

[akist]

Great. That then means that I can build the extra foundations and at some later stage apply for planning, and if/when I get it I am OK and carry on, but if I do not get the planning there will be a problem as the foundations and DPC will all be done for nought?

 

[Notch7]

Great. That then means that I can build the extra foundations and at some later stage apply for planning, and if/when I get it I am OK and carry on, but if I do not get the planning there will be a problem as the foundations and DPC will all be done for nought?

Yup, that sums it up

If you posted on here your plans with your extra bit sketched on, the experts on here might give a good indication if pd or not.

 

[akist]

Hi guys,

Many thanks for your comments. I attach the plan where the utility/day rooms are seen on the left tucked on the main structure.

Please let me know what you think.

many thanks

 

[^woody^]

If you have put a building notice in, why do you need plans? They wont be checked if you submit them later.

Have you agreed a fee structure with the builder, and defined who is responsible for what? A notice is a big risk when things are not clear.

 

[akist]

The original planning permit expires mid-May so there is a rush to dig foundations. We put a notice in without proper structural plans. The structural plans are still being worked on by the structural engineer. I have agreed a fee with the builder to build the foundations up to the DPC level. The council have said that in terms of "commencing the build" they only care about the trench, not even filled in with concrete. But we cannot have an open trench around the house so we are filling it in. As I get the structural plans later today I think we can then apply for building control / permit and get quotes at the same time.

 

[^woody^]

As I get the structural plans later today I think we can then apply for building control / permit and get quotes at the same time.

But you have already put a building notice in for the build. Why would you want to submit another application to building control?

Has the drainage layout been sorted out and any build over agreement put in place?

 

[akist]

But you have already put a building notice in for the build. Why would you want to submit another application to building control?

It was just an idea because if you apply for building control they can accept or reject the plans and that is it, no need for regular inspections and ad-hoc approvals/rejections?

 

[akist]

Has the drainage layout been sorted out and any build over agreement put in place?

They have agreed to be careful and not to disrupt electricity, gas, sewage and telephone lines all of which go straight through the new foundation lines... I think it is incredible if they manage to do this without disruption. I will be packing my bags...

 

[^woody^]

A building notice = no plans are checked, you build, the work is checked, changes made if work is not complant.

Full plans = plans are checked, you build to plans, the work is checked.

It's one or the other, not both. The proelm with no plans is that you rely on th ebuilder building to the correct regualtions. If the inspector deems the work non compliant, then th ecost of alterations is a often cause for dispute between client and contractor.

If you put ion a building notice, having plans prepared afterwards for the inspector is a waste of time as they are not checked or approved - so you ar ein the exact same position as if proceeding on a building notice.

 

[^woody^]

They have agreed to be careful and not to disrupt electricity, gas, sewage and telephone lines all of which go straight through the new foundation lines... I think it is incredible if they manage to do this without disruption. I will be packing my bags...

If working within 3m of public drains then you must get the water authority's prior approval. The council should not accept a building notice for works that require a Build over Agreement from the water company.

An agreement by the contractor not to damage anything is nothing.

 

[akist]

Hello, thanks for all the advice.

Regarding service lines and drains, I am on private drains, nowhere near public. Hopefully, really hoping, the damage if any will be small. Depends how deep the service lines are buried I suppose. I dread to think what happens if they smash through gas, electricity and water all possibly running next to one another.

Structural plans have been received but we have to review them so still cannot show them to anyone as they are not final.

It seems we dig the trench, have it inspected, fill it with concrete to DPC, have it inspected, get our "starting date in" as far as planning is concerned, then get some breathing space to decide how to do the rest.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Gas/electric/telecoms cables- you'd be insane not to get your local providers involved. Check them- some offer a free (or cheap) service- you tell them what you're up to, they tell you where the cables/ducts/pipes are. Consequences of smashing a water pipe could be serious (if you have a high-pressure main under there somewhere), smashing a telco line could be expensive if its a multipair feeding many buildings, smashing gas or electric lines could be lethal. 'Hoping' is not an appropriate stance.