PIR for lights inside ...

[BeeLZeebub]

Humble apologies if this has been covered before ...

I'd like to install a PIR outside to turn on my kitchen lights - instead of an outside lamp - using an override switch (i.e so I can use kitchen lights normally or have them controlled by the PIR when we're out). My initial thoughts are that I could break the switched live feed to the kitchen lights (5 x 50w hallies) with a junction box and bring it to a switch on the kitchen's outside wall, the other side of which would be the PIR. However, I've been trying to figure out a feasible 2-way switch configuration ....

Is there one? Or am I underestimating the complexity of the task? I also realise that this method would require the kitchen lights to be on for the override to work ... which would be ugly.

Any thoughts / help / humourous derision would be most welcome

Thanks

 

[OwainDIYer]

if you use a PIR with separate (volt free) contacts, and arrange the contacts to short the strappers of a 2-way switch circuit, the PIR will turn the lights on for the PIR time period, regardless of the 2-way switches.

 

[bernardgreen]

If this is for a deterent effect then it can be enhanced if the sensor turns on a small outside lamp and then after a few seconds ( using a time delay relay ) the kitchen or another inside light comes on. It looks as if someone in the house has seen the outside light come on and is coming to meet the visitor.

 

[BeeLZeebub]

Thanks guys - appreciate the responses.

Aside from the security aspects, I'm doing this as a challenge to myself after years of putting in basic lighting & sockets. So please bear with me being a little wooden ....

Firstly, Owain, I need to get my head around volt-free contacts on a PIR. I thought a PIR was bascially a switch, and therefore by definition the load side would be volt-free ... until the internal relay switched on. I'm sure it's blindingly obvious, but what am I missing? If you could also elaborate a little on the switch configuration of your suggestion ( ) I'd be most grateful

Thanks for a great suggestion BG ... bearing in mind my comments above, would that configuration be straightforward ?

Again - thanks for the help

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You'll also need either a master control switch, or a PIR which also has a photocell, or your lights will come on during the day.

Plus expect an even shorter lamp life and higher bills than you are already suffering when your lights start turning on and off all night long due to every passing fox and cat.

Quite honestly the priority focus for your time and money should be to resolve this:

5 x 50w hallies

 

[BeeLZeebub]

LED replacements in the post as I type
Just moved into the house recently and ordering them was one of the first things I did. I just embarassed myself in mentioning them to pre-empt any questions about load wrt the PIR.

As for night / day use - as I mentioned (implied) in my first post, the idea is that the circuit will be on 'kitchen use' most of the time. As for when I want the PIR on, I've found sonic repellants quite useful (course, I've not yet told the wife why our 2 cats never venture out any more !!)

 

[OwainDIYer]

Firstly, Owain, I need to get my head around volt-free contacts on a PIR. I thought a PIR was bascially a switch, and therefore by definition the load side would be volt-free ... until the internal relay switched on.

volt-free means that the switch contacts are completely separate and isolated from the power supply to the PIR.

Thus the PIR would have L & N terminals for power, and COM and L1 terminals for switch. No internal connection between the L and COM terminals. The PIR can be powered from a different circuit from the lights.

You would need a 4+e cable to the PIR.

Refer to the diagram for 2-way switching in the WIKI

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:two_way_lighting

If you short the two strapping wires, which go to the L1 and L2 terminals of (either) switch

//www.diynot.com/wiki/_detail/...sm.jpg?id=electrics:lighting:two_way_lighting

then regardless of the position of the 2-way switches, there will be a circuit through the two switches and the lamps will illuminate.

 

[flameport]

If you have one switch for the kitchen lights and want to add the PIR, then this:

Untitled

• flameport
• 11 Nov 2011
• 1

Switch A is the normal kitchen light switch. Switch B is PIR active or not.


If there are already 2 switches for the kitchen lights in a 2-way arrangement, then this:

Untitled

• flameport
• 11 Nov 2011
• 1

Switch A and B are the two kitchen light switches.
Switch C is PIR active or not.

With the PIR switch off, the light switch inside works in the usual way and the PIR won't do anything.
With the PIR switch on, the internal switch still works as normal, and if the PIR detects movement, the lights will go on regardless of the settings of the inside switch.

PIR terminals are Line, Switched Line and Neutral, which is what you will find in most outdoor PIRs, and will need to be of the type with a relay switching the output (most are).
Earth wiring not shown.

 

[BeeLZeebub]

Cant thank you all enough for taking the time to reply - truly appreciated. Once I've sobered up tomorrow morning, I'll get going on this ....