PIR's for cats...

[vimes]

Hello

I have read a few older threads regarding the fitting of PIR's where cats are left in the room. We have an indoor cat (Sphynx and so needs to be left in indoors) and I have seen both the Pyronex KX10DP and the Visionic Discovery K9-80 as being suitable for fitting in such an environment.

Has anyone had any experience of fitting either of those PIR's and are they as good as they are claimed to be in being able to discriminate both effectively and consistently against pets, a cat in my case, and humans..?

Visonic one...

http://www.visonic.com/Products/Wired-Detectors/Discovery-k9-80

Pyronex...

http://www.pyronix.com/php/web/prod...me=&im2=pet immune&conf3=KX10DP&id=73&id2=209

Thanks for any advice

 

[PJF]

The detectors that you mention are really designed for dogs. The detector will tollerate an animal that weighs less than say 80lbs in the visonic case, but if that animal gets above approx 1m high then it will go into alarm. As cats tend to climb on to furniture this will cause you a problem.

If the room that the cat is locked in has no means for the cat to get above 1m that it should be ok.

Paul.

 

[vimes]

Thanks for your reply. I suppose you are stating what I had thought but had hoped was a little different now. Especially when I read...

Pet-tolerant PIR Detector for Professionals

Discovery K9-80 is designed to provide effective security in premises where animals (dogs, cats, rats, etc.) may be present. It enables homeowners to protect their homes while allowing their pets to move freely.

Target Specific Imaging (TSI)

Patented Visonic technology used in motion detectors to reliably distinguish between human bodies and pets weighing up to a specified weight. See for example Next+ K9-85, Discovery K9-80, V-Pet.

Unfortunately the only room where the cat could be confined also has chairs etc where it could and probably would climb on.

ah well, again thanks for your reply.

 

[matreb]

I have the K9's fitted throughout my house. We have two cats, and they have never triggered the alarm, even though they can (and do) climb. I did loads of research before fitting, and my understanding is that the PIR excludes animals by the size of the detected IR signal, rather than its location. The instructions that come with the PIR only talk about "pets", and make no mention of height etc.

That said, I'm happy to put my own experience down to luck if PJF has any specific references to quote...

Having installed a system in my own and a relative's home, I'd endorse the Visonic Powermax - very reliable, flexible etc.

PS If height was the excluding factor, an intruder might be able to avoid detection by crawling along the floor. (This does not happen, as my young children have found when trying to sneak round the house with alarm in chime mode!)

 

[matreb]

Just noticed this on another post, from John45 (thanks John!). Might explain what PJF meant. I positioned my sensors away from anything high (which might block coverage). That means cats can't get too close and make a large IR "target".

John45

Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 41
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 5 times
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:30 pm Post Subject:

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I haven't tried the wireless Friedland alarms before but I do have extensive experience of using Pet friendly sensors with the Yale wireless alarms.

You have set yourself a little bit of a challenge as the Pet friendly sensors can be made to work very well , however cats do present a difficult challenge.

The problem with cats and allthough you may think you know them , they live a double darker life when you aren't around.

You may think that your cats sleep dutifully on your rug by the fire when you aren't in but in actual fact they are more akin to lepoards climbing trees.
They love being high up and will climb anywhere they possibly can. Even up curtains , on pelmets , fridge tops , shelves in fact anywhere they can hang on and look down.

When you position the pet friendly sensors dogs are no problem , cats however despite being smaller can get closer to the sensors thanks to their climbing ability and can fool pet friendly sensors into thinking they are seing a larger heat signature than they really are.

Position your Pet friendly sensors where they are facing to the most open aspect of the room with as few objects possible for the cats to climb onto. You may have to position a sensor mid wall instead of in a corner in order to ensure the cats wild antics wont be picked up.

Stairs also present a problem as cats will jump through banisters rather than going the whole way down and they move so fast their heat 'trail' can fool a sensor into thinking it is looking at something far larger.

So try not to position a pet friendly sensor towards a staircase or banister.

It can be done but you may have a few false alarms until you find somewhere where the comprimise between protecting your property and preventing cat activated false alarms can be found.

Obviously as you say an ideal would be restricting your pets movements allowing normal sensors throughout the home and a pet friendly in the room the cats are kept. sadly however the kitchen is the place with the most opportunities for cats to climb around.

 

[vimes]

Thanks for your informative post. I can buy either of the two detectors and, for me, the cat could not climb anything within 3 meters of the fitted PIR and so hopefully its "profile" seen by that PIR should not trigger as a detection.

Interesting to note that you have fitted the K9's as I was looking at the Pyronix model, only because I use their other PIR's and for no other reason. As they are both costing about the same price I could then buy the K9 as you have had good experience of using them.

Thanks for your post.

 

[PJF]

Over the years I have fitted a fair few visonic pet pirs, but only for use with dogs & they all worked spot on.

I remember last year fitting a domestic alarm & they had a cat which was locked in the kitchen during the day. All of the equipment was Texecom so I tried there pet pir, petwise I think, this went into alarm on the first day even though on walk testing with the cat in kitchen nothing happened. We decided that the cat must be getting up on the kitchen work tops, within a few metres of the pir.

I replaced the pet pir with a visonic type & still had the same problem. In the end I ended up replacing the pir with a glass breakage detector, as the rear door was contacted.

The info below is copied from visonics site. Sorry could not copy & paste:

Installation Hints.
Important. The detector is immune to 80lb animals moving on the floor or climbing on furniture as long as the activity takes place below 1m. Above 1m the detector is immune to 40lb pets, but the pet immunity will decrease as the pet gets closer to the detector. It is therefore recommended to select a mounting location that minimizes potential close proximity of animals.

Its a catch 22, do you fit the pet pir in a location that you think will be ok, but then you may find it is not or do you find another way of protecting the area, contacts, vipers, BGD etc.

Paul.

 

[vimes]

Thanks again for your reply Paul. It does not seem as clear cut as I imagined when fitting a PIR with a cat active in the room.

My choice of PIR for that room will remain on hold, for now.

Some sort of straight jacket or a roll of sellotape might provide a solution

 

[vaderag]

Sorry to join in an old thread, but i'm looking at getting some Yale Pet Sensors for my cat (since we used to have the normal ones, but i think these will go off!)

I'm concerned that the pet sensors may not be right for a cat... can anyone confirm whether they've used these?

 

[alumni]

Cats are problematic. End of. Reasons given above.

Some detectors too sensitive, some not enough - and ask yourself this, what will trigger them?

Either get rid of the cat (from the room) or the detector.

 

[yaleguy3]

I have managed to get all my yale pet friendly installations to work correctly with pets , however cats are a lot more trouble and are the only installs I have had to go back to and reconsider and resite sensors.

However as above it can be done. I have never had to give up and fail it just means your consideration has to be more about how the cats will trigger the sensor rather than where is the most convenient place for the sensor in terms of security. However with a 12m range and 110degree field of 'vision' it is possible to cover both bases ie pet friendliness and security.

Place the sensors as far away from any horizontal surface regardless of height - cats will and do climb anywhere.
Never point them towards anywhere a cat may jump down or through ie bannisters on staircases - table tops etc
Try to point them into the open clear space in the centre of a room and remember cats can make curtains swing when they jump on the windowsills.

 

[Alarm]

I have managed to get all my yale pet friendly installations to work correctly with pets , however cats are a lot more trouble and are the only installs I have had to go back to and reconsider and resite sensors.

However as above it can be done. I have never had to give up and fail it just means your consideration has to be more about how the cats will trigger the sensor rather than where is the most convenient place for the sensor in terms of security. However with a 12m range and 110degree field of 'vision' it is possible to cover both bases ie pet friendliness and security.

Place the sensors as far away from any horizontal surface regardless of height - cats will and do climb anywhere.
Never point them towards anywhere a cat may jump down or through ie bannisters on staircases - table tops etc
Try to point them into the open clear space in the centre of a room and remember cats can make curtains swing when they jump on the windowsills.

QFA

 

[david17sr]

I've been interested to read that people generally seem to find that the Visonic pet tolerant detectors work well. This hasn't been my experience. I have 2 whippets which together weigh comfortably below the recommended mass yet the alarm triggers almost immediately if they are in the room. My professional installers seem baffled by the problem and have basically given up on me. The only solution seems to have been to mask off the entire bottom part of the lens with tape, which seems a pretty crude answer considering the high tech logic that is claimed by Visonic!
The only thing that I can think of is that the whippets have very short coats and so might appear hotter than a normal dog and so give a bigger signal.
Does anyone have knowledge of whether you are supposed to tune" pet tolerant detectors by masking the beams? Or are they supposed to work "out of the box"?

 

[wcavanagh]

I have been using texecom Pet 3D for ages and my cat has never set it off for what it is worth.