Planning a loft conversion, what order?

[sleptwithatradesman]

Hi,

I've recently bought a semi detached bungalow that I plan on doing a loft conversion on to add 2 more bedrooms (1 en-suite).

Many in the area seem to have had similar done and I've looked at planning applications online to look at whats been allowed.

I'm a Mech. Design Engineer by trade so would like to do as much as possible myself. That said, I know a little information can be a dangerous thing

I want to get a builder/roofer in to add a large dormer (or 2) and put a staircase in. I'd like to do the rest myself. (services/partitions etc.)

I'm unsure where to start and at what point to get builders in to even quote.

The Dormers I envisage might put me over the permitted development rules so I may need planning permission. That, I think I could do and get myself if needed. (and the building warrant.)

Obviously I'll need to get a SE in to do calcs to determine if the existing joists are ok or need reinforcing.

Where do I start? Is the following realistic?

- Get a SE in to do calcs based on a 'rough' design done by me.
- Get builder quotes for as near to this 'rough design' as possible based on their experience.
- Finalise design/drawings and get SE to sign off after builders input.
- Get Planning and/or Building warrant.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[jeds]

You could start with a simple scale plan of the roof and initially identify the load bearing points/walls. This will determine how you are going to support the new floor and if it's possible to carry some support up to the roof. Then you need to decide on direction of floors joists and when you know that you can work out spans and then sizes. If the joists get too long you could consider 'I' joists or breaking up the spans with steels. Once you have that you need to work out support for the roof and dormers. Presumably you will need to take some existing roof support away so you will need something back in somewhere to make up for it. Final critical point is where the stairs will go up.

Once you've resolved all that the rest is usually just deciding on layout and you shouldn't run into anything critical. You could try specialist loft companies but I wouldn't go to a general builder without some detailed drawings first. There's no point. Until they have drawing they won't know exactly what to quote for and if you go to two or three you'll get two or three quotes that can't be compared. At some point you will need professional input. My advice would be a chartered building surveyor experienced in loft conversion who could do the whole lot for you; planning, building regs, engineering. But there are not many of us around. Otherwise a technician to do drawings and a structural engineer separately.

 

[sleptwithatradesman]

Cheers for the reply.

You could start with a simple scale plan of the roof and initially identify the load bearing points/walls. This will determine how you are going to support the new floor and if it's possible to carry some support up to the roof. Then you need to decide on direction of floors joists and when you know that you can work out spans and then sizes. If the joists get too long you could consider 'I' joists or breaking up the spans with steels. Once you have that you need to work out support for the roof and dormers. Presumably you will need to take some existing roof support away so you will need something back in somewhere to make up for it. Final critical point is where the stairs will go up.

Could a SE do all of the above?

I should have added. The Attic has had a bizarre "storage conversion" done by the last owner. Space has been sectioned into 2 large rooms (floored & carpeted) with Velux windows and a ramsay ladder.

 

[Deluks]

Space has been sectioned into 2 large rooms (floored & carpeted) with Velux windows and a ramsay ladder.

****, What the ****s a ****ing Ramsay ladder?

 

[sleptwithatradesman]

****, What the **** a **** Ramsay ladder?

A pull down loft ladder. Ramsay is the manufacturers name, sorry.

I thought it was a 'hoover' type thing. The guy who wrote the home report thought so too

 

[^woody^]

You need someone to design the conversion and as part of that design if there are beams or structural alterations, then that person does them or an engineer is engaged to do them

Then once the design is complete, the plans are submitted for any required approval

Once approved, and it is confirmed that no alterations are required to the design, then and only then can a builder give you a realistic quote to build the design

Getting calcs done first on something which may change, and getting "rough" estimates is unwise and a potentially very expensive way to go about things

 

[sleptwithatradesman]

Cheers Woody.

I'm hoping to avoid employing the services of an Architect. Reason being, the design is quite simple (bar the position of the stairs - more on that later).

I also have the benefit of being able to review all the architectural designs and drawings for similar loft conversions in the area for the last 4 years. I'm a Mech. engineer to trade so doing the drawings are not a problem.

I mailed a local SE and enquired if he can do calcs. and advise on any structural alterations that may be needed. I'm hopeful these will be minimal due to the type of house and amount of similar jobs that seem to have been done in the area.

He said he can on the strength of either Architects drawings or a site visit.

I take on board it's not worth going near a builder without approved designs.

So, I'm now thinking - I'll draw up all the existing and proposed elevations. (Get as much structural detail on there as I can for the existing) Then get the structural engineer out to see if it's feasible or needs tweaked.

Then planning and/or Building warrant, then see a builder.

Does that sound reasonable?

cheers

 

[noseall]

I'm baffled.

You are prepared to employ the services of a structural engineer but not a building designer/architect/teccie?

If i was a wise man dishing out financial advice regards a loft conversion, the first thing i would say is employ a designer who is au-fait with planning, building control, building regulations, roof design, stair case design, floor design, steel design etc etc.

No disrespect to your profession, but what Woodplank has said is the top and tail of it all.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Come on noseybonk if you can draw a bit of ductwork or some switchgear surely the regs for a lofty will be a walkover, stands to reason especially when you have a free forum to rely on!

 

[sleptwithatradesman]

I'm baffled.

You are prepared to employ the services of a structural engineer but not a building designer/architect/teccie? .

I'd hoped it could be avoided as it's a very small simple design thats required. At this stage I'm only asking questions.

No disrespect to your profession, but what Woodplank has said is the top and tail of it all.

None taken.

Woody has given the only constructive advice so far and it's appreciated.

Nobody subsequentlly has answered my question other than - just pay people to do everything. Not really the idea if this forum I'd thought.

As for Freddy. What ever you say pal. Ductwork & switchgear? I design ice cream cones for a living. The wee triangle ribs were my idea

Your use of the word 'free' is interesting. You dont make a living doing the part of this job I hope to cut out do you?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I design ice cream cones for a living. The wee triangle ribs were my idea

Its not brain surgery though is it!

 

[sleptwithatradesman]

I'd have used 'rocket science' but hey-ho

Freddy, you're obviously in this trade and I'm by no means trying to make out you chaps are unneccesary.

Care to advise me rather than have digs?

I've had a look on my local councils planning website of every loft conversion done on simlar properties over the last few years.

I reckon I could come up with a layout (note the terrninolgy) and do all the drawings neccesary to get planning permission. Some I've a seen are a shambles tbh. I'd hoped I could do a fair bit.

That's it. I'm looking for advise. Got any? Other than the standard reply ?

I know I need to get trade proffesionals involved as this isn't my game.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I'd eat my ice cream cone hat if you even needed Planning Permission!

That's just save you £150 right there!

 

[sleptwithatradesman]

Start munching.

PD rights stipulate les sthan 50% of the roofspace.

I may want to use more.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Ah well I bow to the information you've seen fit to withhold from the forum.

My crystal ball is in for repair this week!

Humble pie sure tastes good with a dollop of ice cream.