Planning permission problem. (Lapsed?) (Ed.)

[Christina Tammy]

I got planning permission back in 2022 to do a major change to my house. It included replacing all the windows with larger ones and adding two new extensions. When the builder started he found that the roof was quite rotten and removed it to install new timbers. Whilst the roof was off he decided that it was a good time to install the big steels that were needed for the approved construction.

To install the big steels meant temporarily removing existing first floor timbers.

He also created the large openings for the windows etc. The gable end wall became very unstable and crashed down onto the new floor slab , breaking a big chunk of it.Pics available. Luckily no one was injured. We then called out the structural engineer to examine the remaining masonry. It was found that when we made the openings larger for the new windows the remaining masonry was also unstable. The engineer suggested that a wind post would be required between the new windows and the columns should be removed and rebuilt with 40 newton blockwork with an integral steel post. All the columns together only amounted to 15 sq metres. We removed the remaining masonry columns,which only required a small push over anyhow. We were just about to start re-building the columns when the planners got informed by someone that the house was demolished.

Technically it looked like that but only because that was the construction method advised by the Engineer. It would have been back looking like the original in a few days if we were allowed to continue.

Ever since we have been arguing with the planners about whether it was lawful or not to remove the old columns. They are saying that it was a demolition job and we are saying that it was a necessary part of the construction to comply with Building regs and the Structural Engineer, not to mention Health and Safety.

Now the planners are asking me to apply for a new house instead with lots of CIL implications in their favour.

The have been trying to mislead me saying that the current planning permission is not in force any more. But it is not revoked either.

I have , or never had any intention of constructing the house any different to the planning approval.

I am at my wits end at this stage with the planners. I need the house to live in it asap.

I would understand , if I were trying to cheat and build something different from the approved plans

If I carry on and finish the house as per approved planning , what is the worst thing that can happen to me. What law am I supposed to be breaking ?

All help appreciated please.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

On the face of it, in simple terms once something is removed (demolished or collapses), under planning law it no longer exists so anything replacing it is subject to requiring planning permission, unless it's permitted development.

 

[mrrusty]

@freddiemercurystwin is correct, but if it was me, I think I would first take some legal advice from a planning expert, and provided they gave me a certain amount of confidence, I would call the planners bluff and crack on. I am no expert in this field, but I struggle to contemplate if you have approved planning, you start the job, it doesn't go quite according to plan during the build process, but you end up with something exactly like the planning permission, how ultimately, at appeal if necessary, it would go against you.

I think I would make a distinction between "what the planners tell you" and "official notices". I would tell them that you will ignore everything they tell you, but will respond to official notices under the appropriate appeal processes as required. This at least forces the legals in the council to get involved, and ensure it isn't just a pig-headed planning official.

 

[^woody^]

If you got the permission to do the works, and despite the fact that walls were unsuitable and had to be rebuilt, as long as you are working to the original permission and the rebuilt walls are visually similar to how they were then no new permission would be required. Replacing unsuitable walls is not demolition in this context.

The significant works done already means that the original permission has not lapsed.

The main thing would be whether you have complied with any conditions - especially any pre-start conditions.

Why have you stopped work? Has a stop notice been issued?

 

[Christina Tammy]

Hi everyone,
I think you might be interested in this one.
The other evening , myself and my builder were browsing through the CAD files of the project.
We had a little brainwave and decided to overlay the existing dwgs over the proposed dwgs. We could hardly believe the result.
It did not work. The old columns on the existing dwgs were coming right down where the new windows were proposed.
Straight away we arranged a meeting with the planner that granted the permission. During the meeting we asked him who is wrong or right now.The tables were turned. He admitted there was a big mistake and had had slipped through unnoticed .
He was not giving in easily. He suggested us appealing .We said why should we go to cost of appealing your mistake.
He 99% gave in but he is meeting with the head planner and enforcement officer asap.
If we don`t get satisfactory answer in the next few days do you think we would be able to sue the council. This 2 year delay has cost us a lot of money and stress. It genuinely has.
Looking forward to your replies please

 

[JohnD]

The old columns on the existing dwgs were coming right down where the new windows were proposed.

Who was responsible for drawing and submitting accurate plans?

 

[Christina Tammy]

Hi,
We had a proper RIBA architect doing the dwgs and submission. Are you thinking the he should be targeted also

 

[JohnD]

I am suggesting that the council is not responsible for the errors your agents made.

 

[Christina Tammy]

But why did they stop us building if they did not know the facts.

 

[JohnD]

You demolished your house.