Plasterboard for bathroom

[scholesy]

Hi All,

I was just looking for some expert advice re plasterboard types \ sizes. I am still planning a new bathroom for my home, (been planning for what seems like months now ). The bathroom will be completely tiled on the inside with fairly large porcelain tiles.

I am currently planning to use Aquapanel for the inside in 2400 x 900 panels. In total i've worked out i'll need 11, which at £35 a pop is quite expensive. So my questions are:

1) are 2400 lengths the best size? Seems to make most sense to me as I can go straight from floor to ceiling. The reason I asked is because its been mentioned to me to get 1200's and work horizontally, although I can't figure out why this is preferable.

2) i'm now thinking of doing just the immediate shower\bath area in aquapanel to save some cash. Would you recommend this and if so what plasterboard should I use for remaining areas?

3) two of the walls are brick, (inc part of shower wall), and I would like to dot and dab plasterboard onto brick. Is aquapanel OK for this? I've read conflicting messages on this subject on here so just wanted to get a bit more info if anyone has it.

thanks again

 

[Richard C]

So my questions are:

1) are 2400 lengths the best size? Seems to make most sense to me as I can go straight from floor to ceiling. The reason I asked is because its been mentioned to me to get 1200's and work horizontally, although I can't figure out why this is preferable.

I use 1200 x 900 mainly because of the weight (2400 will be very heavy) but full height boards can also be difficult to manoever & put up in the confined space of a bathroom. Where are you sourcing them? £35 is expensive & you should shop around!

2) i'm now thinking of doing just the immediate shower\bath area in aquapanel to save some cash. Would you recommend this and if so what plasterboard should I use for remaining areas?

The wet areas are really all you need in Aquapanel but use moisture proof PB rather than Wall board in the other areas.

3) two of the walls are brick, (inc part of shower wall), and I would like to dot and dab plasterboard onto brick. Is aquapanel OK for this? I've read conflicting messages on this subject on here so just wanted to get a bit more info if anyone has it.

Knauf say Aquapanel can’t be dot & dabbed but the method I sometimes use if not fixing to battens is to dot & dab the AQ panels into place & then fix them back to the block work using through fixings to hold them permanently in place; you need to ensure the through fixings coincide with the dots of adhesive behind to give them support or they will just pull through.

 

[scholesy]

thanks Richard,

going back over you points, (can't do quotes???)


(1)

I use 1200 x 900 mainly because of the weight (2400 will be very heavy) but full height boards can also be difficult to manoever & put up in the confined space of a bathroom. Where are you sourcing them? £35 is expensive & you should shop around!

OK Do you stack the 2 high then (2400 ceiling)?
I'm sourcing from Tr*vis P3rkins, where would you suggest?
Do you use 1200 x 900 for all your plasterboard work?

(2)

The wet areas are really all you need in Aquapanel but use moisture proof PB rather than Wall board in the other areas.

Would you recommend any particular makes of moisture proof plasterboard. Is the Gyproc green moisture resitant board any good? I take it most moisture boards are OK to tile direct?

(3)

Knauf say Aquapanel can’t be dot & dabbed but the method I sometimes use if not fixing to battens is to dot & dab the AQ panels into place & then fix them back to the block work using through fixings to hold them permanently in place; you need to ensure the through fixings coincide with the dots of adhesive behind to give them support or they will just pull through.

what are through fixings? Is this putting rawl plugs into masonry first then screwing through board into pre-prepared holes/plugs?

Apologies if this is a bit basic but i'm new to this.

cheers
Scholesy
[/quote]

 

[Richard C]

OK Do you stack the 2 high then (2400 ceiling)?

Depends on the shower/bath area; I’ve just done a 1000 wide shower tray so turned 3 1200 x 900 boards on their side to cover the area + a bit; tape the joins well & cover with a skim of adhesive, working it well into the tape just before tiling.

I'm sourcing from Tr*vis P3rkins, where would you suggest?

TPR is one of the better ones but I will only ever use the large, local national BM’s/plumb/build centres in an absolute emergency; I believe they are all owned by the same conglomerate anyway! Generally, they are not DIY friendly or even small “jobbing” builder friendly on price or advice & you must always, always ask for a discount! This can be up to 60% & in many cases the result is still way OTT but they won’t offer you anything unless you specifically ask!

I use a B&Q trade centre for all my plaster/cement/drain/ products; they are just so much cheaper. My local “revamped” trade outlet has also just started stocking Aquapanel & all of the other British Gypsum board products so I won’t even have to go local for those anymore. I can fill my truck on my regular weekly visit & save at least 40% on the price I’m currently paying locally.
Sorry that was a bit of a rant!

Do you use 1200 x 900 for all your plasterboard work?

I always buy full 2400 x 1200 sheets Of PB & cut them in half if access is a problem; tape the join even if not skimming.

Would you recommend any particular makes of moisture proof plasterboard. Is the Gyproc green moisture resitant board any good? I take it most moisture boards are OK to tile direct?

Gyproc moisture if fine & yes you can tile direct but use decent tile adhesive (BAL) not the cheapo DIY shed stuff.

what are through fixings? Is this putting rawl plugs into masonry first then screwing through board into pre-prepared holes/plugs?

These fixings come complete with an integral plug, you just drill though whatever you want to fix, push the screw & plug into the hole & tighten it up. No messing around with marking holes, removing whatever it is you’re trying to fix, drilling & then hoping it will all match up! You can get them a lot cheaper on line but, again, B&Q sell them; not cheap but makes the job easy.

 

[scholesy]

cheers Richard, that is really helpful \ valuable information, thanks.

One final point, my plan is to overboard my bathroom ceiling. I'll be taking down two adjoining walls first, and replacing with timber stud partitions.

Would you do this in the following order...
(1) remove the two adjoining walls
(2) overboard ceiling, to far edge of were soleplates will be
(3) screw soleplates through new & old ceiling then on into timber joist\noggin
(4) install partitions

Again I assume it best to use moisture resistant plasterboard for overboarding (ie Gyproc Green)?
Thanks again

Scholesy

 

[Richard C]

Why are you removing/replacing the existing walls? What construction are they? Are you sure they aren’t supporting walls?

A word of warning; whatever the current construction (stud or block), the new ones will have to comply with current Building Regulations! Latest BR’s state that a partition wall between a room with a W/C & an adjacent room must have sound insulation, except where the W/C is in a bedroom en-suite. Basically this means you can’t use standard 12.5mm PB; it has to be minimum 12.5mm “Sound block” PB (which is denser) & with a minimum of 25mm of mineral wool insulation within the stud wall.

Depending on the construction, you may find that the existing ceiling boards do not extend beyond the current wall line into the next room; you may just find exposed joists above & you will have to pack out using your method. Personally I would fix the head plate directly to the joists/noggins above, then put the new ceiling boards up so they are against the timber; the new wall boards will then overlap the ceiling boards when fitted.

 

[scholesy]

blinkin regs

Why are you removing/replacing the existing walls? What construction are they? Are you sure they aren’t supporting walls?

i'm making my bathroom bigger by extending into the spare bedroom, (were the old water tanks were kept). The two walls are...

(1) hall facing, plant pot material construction, (forgotten name). I'm replacing this with new partition because (i)not sure how easy to attach aquapanel because of said material (ii) will need new door frame\skirting (iii) looks dificult to install towel radiator through its cavity. To be honest I'm not 100% about this in the end I decided if doing the other wall it may be best to put in a new partition.

(2) spare bedroom facing wall, made of single breezeblocks. This has to come out to make bathroom bigger as will be extending in this direction.

As regards supporting walls, I'm fairly confident they aren't because neighbours removed same wall, (but NOT hall facing wall). My belief was because of wall (1)'s construction, plant pot stuff, and fact it has door that it wouldn't be load bearing. Finally have checked in loft, joists run in direction of hall wall but there is nothing obviously resting on it, ie brick\rsj. As I've said I am very new to this and would appreciate any guidance on above.

Basically this means you can’t use standard 12.5mm PB; it has to be minimum 12.5mm “Sound block” PB (which is denser) & with a minimum of 25mm of mineral wool insulation within the stud wall.

Appreciate the heads up on this. Will get sound proof board/wool insulation for spare bedroom wall. Does this apply to Hall Facing wall also? Any recommendations maybe Gyproc again?

Personally I would fix the head plate directly to the joists/noggins above, then put the new ceiling boards up so they are against the timber; the new wall boards will then overlap the ceiling boards when fitted.

Understood, would you recommend any particular timber sizes for studs / noggins or just standard sizes? (47 x 75mm)

thanks
Scholesy

 

[scholesy]

Richard, just remembered, I posted a picture of my proposed bathroom about a month back you can see it here to help you visualise the walls...

//www.diynot.com/network/scholesy/albums/

 

[Richard C]

blinkin regs

Tell me about it! This one caught me out on the new en-suite I’ve just finished off; as I’d already put the boards up on the other bedroom side, I then had had to double up before skimming to meet the requirements. I used 15mm Soundblock board on the other side &, being a cement board, Aquapenel meets the acoustic requirements without any problems.

As regards supporting walls, I'm fairly confident they aren't because neighbours removed same wall, (but NOT hall facing wall).

You need to be more than “fairly confident”! Just because your neighbour has done it & got away with it on what is, presumably, a similar property, it doesn’t necessarily mean yours will be the same; builders can get up to all sorts of tricks on block/estate builds!

My belief was because of wall (1)'s construction, plant pot stuff, and fact it has door that it wouldn't be load bearing. Finally have checked in loft, joists run in direction of hall wall but there is nothing obviously resting on it, ie brick\rsj. As I've said I am very new to this and would appreciate any guidance on above.

The fact there is a door in a wall doesn’t mean it’s not load bearing, there may be a lintel in there! By joists, do you mean the ceiling joists? They are really only to provide support for the ceiling & ensure whoever lives in the house (or whatever junk they put up there) doesn’t bring the ceiling down! It’s the roof trusses you should be looking at; my guess is they will be running at 90 degrees to those windows so you need to be sure they are not relying on any part the wall for support or lateral bracing.

Appreciate the heads up on this. Will get sound proof board/wool insulation for spare bedroom wall. Does this apply to Hall Facing wall also? Any recommendations maybe Gyproc again?

It doesn’t apply the walls which form an en-suite facility in the same bedroom (presumably it's OK to listen to your partners fahrts but not others!) but I’m not entirely sure if the wall is adjacent to a hall; it’s Part E of the BR’s you need to be looking at & you can download a copy free from the government planning portal website; happy reading! British Gypsum “Gyproc” is the most widely available & it’s all I ever use.

Understood, would you recommend any particular timber sizes for studs / noggins or just standard sizes? (47 x 75mm)

I always use 4” x 2” on partition studs that divide one room from another; I only use 3” x 2” for inter-room dividers or froming cupboards etc.

 

[scholesy]

Richard, thanks again.

I'll use soundproof board for the whole thing, it'll save my ears the next time my girlfriend is singing in the shower

It’s the roof trusses you should be looking at; my guess is they will be running at 90 degrees to those windows so you need to be sure they are not relying on any part the wall for support or lateral bracing.

Your bang on they do run at 90 degrees from the windows\external wall. Just had a look. Basically the trusses run up from both sides (external walls) and meet at the top to form a /\ shape. About a third of way up on each side, is a RSJ running at 90 degrees and the trusses are resting on these. The RSJs are supported by separating wall for neighbours on one side and wall were chimney stack is on other, (ie other external wall as it's an end terrace). Running down from each RSJ are several flimsy looking bits of wood which attach to ceiling joists.

So, I reckon the trusses are supported by external walls + RSJs (which are supported by one external and neighbours wall). The bathroom is next to neighbours separating wall and away from chimney area.

Whoah, that lot I reckon is going to be difficult to visualise should I take a few pics to help?

thanks a million
Scholesy

 

[Richard C]

Whoah, that lot I reckon is going to be difficult to visualise should I take a few pics to help?
thanks a million
Scholesy

I can generally visualise what you’re describing so am fairly OK with your description. By all means post some pics. if you feel it will help but, obviously, I accept no responsibility if it all falls down!

From your replies, you seem to have a grasp of the basics & are taking comments on board in a logical manner; just be absolutely certain of the consequences of what your doing at all times!

A small fly in the ointment! If you haven’t realised by now, I should tell you that what you’re doing is “notifyable work” & to avoid any future problems, you really need a compliance certificate (fee involved)! In your case, I doubt if BC will actually inspect if you provide a written spec. for what you propose with the stud walls, they will probably only be to pleased you understand the requirements!

 

[scholesy]

Thanks for all the info Richard.

I can generally visualise what you’re describing so am fairly OK with your description. By all means post some pics. if you feel it will help but, obviously, I accept no responsibility if it all falls down! icon_eek.gif

If my house falls down then it will be 100% my girlfriends fault for not making me enough tea haha, no seriously, it'll be 100% down to me which is why I'm doing as much research as I can BUT fully understand the difficulties in giving too much advice in this 'blame & claim' era (makes me sick).

So thanks again for all your guidance it's been incredibly valuable. I'm gonna do some more research and look into the notifying procedures. It's still likely to be a few months before I start knocking walls down as i'm finishing off a rewire, then its new central heating before finally getting my teeth into the bathroom

cheers
Scholesy