Please help me design this AV network properly

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Hi

Below is an example of my proposed setup. Are my following assumptions correct?

1. To get Sky in each of the rooms, should I run Sky shot gun cable (WF65?) between the dish and each room directly or can I take x (how many?) cables from the dish directly to the comms room and into a multi switch and then Sky shotgun (or 2 sets of WF100 cables) to each room?

2. How many WF100 cables should I run to each room from a multi switch (I personally think one is enough as I could always split an amplified signal when it comes into the room as it's coming from the amplifer anyway in the comms room?

3. Can the WF100 cables that come to each room from the comms room carry both the DAB and Digital TV signal? If so, how do I think separate it when it comes into each room?

4. How do I handle multi room audio

To add some background, my property is all open walls, ceilings etc so I am not restricted by anything.

Thanks.




AV network design.jpg
 
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1. You need a quatro LNB on the dish and a multriswitch in the comms room feeding shotgun cable to each room. NB quatros are not made to fit sky dishes. You will need a 60cm conventional dish (60cm because you need the next size up for multiswitch systems).
2. Three to allow for future upgrades.
3. Yes. Use a DAB/UHF diplexer in reverse. These can be built into wall sockets.
4.Not sure, but I would assume you need 2 speaker cables to each room not one.
5. There is NO SUCH THING as a digital aerial. Amend your diagram.
 
1. You need a quatro LNB on the dish and a multriswitch in the comms room feeding shotgun cable to each room. NB quatros are not made to fit sky dishes. You will need a 60cm conventional dish (60cm because you need the next size up for multiswitch systems).
2. Three to allow for future upgrades.
3. Yes. Use a DAB/UHF diplexer in reverse. These can be built into wall sockets.
4.Not sure, but I would assume you need 2 speaker cables to each room not one.
5. There is NO SUCH THING as a digital aerial. Amend your diagram.

1. When you say a quatro LNB, how many cables are coming from the 60cm dish - is it 4 sets of shotgun cable coming to the multi switch? Why not 2 or 3, or 5 or 6, why 4 (assuming it is 4)?

2. The WF100 I was referring to was for aerial usage. What would a second or third cable for future proofing be used for? Were you implying for Sky or Freeview?

5. Ok then, just a log periodical aerial?
 
1. A quadro LNB has 4 outputs, so 4 cables.
2. Neither you nor I know the future but spare cables tend to come in useful and don't cost much. Supposing for example you decided you wanted to get signals from another satellite, perhaps even Ka band at some future point.
But absolute minimum right now either 2 WF100 or shotgun for sky and another WF100 for aerial feeds.
 
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Firstly it's not possible (or without spending stupid money on a full IP solution) to route absolutely everything in to a single box in the comms room that then feeds all the rooms with a full compliment of services. What you should think of instead is doing this in layers, so deal with TV/Sat/FM/DAB as one layer; then data network and telephony as another layer; then multichannel audio as another.


Let's start with TV/Sat/FM/DAB...

First, do you really want (or need) a Sky box in every room? Apart from the cost of multiple subscriptions there's also the issue of whether kids are still interested in linear TV. Things are racing ahead now. Streaming and watching on a portable device such as a tablet is far more the norm when kids watch on their own. Would your house be adequately served by say two boxes + Freeview + streaming? If so then a couple of boxes located centrally and then their HD signals distributed via HDMI over Cat5/Cat6 HDMI Baluns could be an alternative. There's both hardware and software/app options available to allow you to talk to individual boxes without controlling all at the same time. With the hardware solution this piggybacks on to the aerial signal distribution network so it's all quite simple to install. With some slight modifications this can be used to control Virgin boxes or Freeview PVR (recorders) as an alternative.

If you still want to stick with the idea of distributing the satellite dish signal all around the house for boxes in any room then you'll need 3x coax cables as a minimum to any room likely to host a Freeview TV and a twin tuner Sky box recorder. Those signals will come from a Multi-switch. There are (in general) 5x input cables feeding in to a multi-switch. These are the four feeds from a Quattro LNB plus one feed that could be a direct input from a TV aerial, or it could be a combined (multiplexed) feed from TV aerial, FM aerial and a DAB aerial. This is normally achieved up at the aerial mast with a box called a Combiner. It takes the feeds in from 2 or 3 source aerials and combines them in to a signal suitable for transmitting via a single aerial coax cable. This can then feed straight in to the TV aerial input on the multi-switch. The reverse process happens in each room. A wall plate de-combines the signals back in to their constituent parts: TV, FM/DAB (note: the radio signals stay combined because the radio tuner sorts out its own splitting). This is done by a Diplex plate.

So at this stage you have a few decisions to make on the TV and Radio distribution front.


Next, data and telephony....

Unless you plan to do door entry/security stuff with the phones then most of us can work quite happily with cordless phones: That means one base station connected to the main phone jack and then some charger docks dotted around the house. Where you will need more phone sockets is if you plan to connect Sky boxes up in each room. I tend to got with Cat5 rather than Cat3 telephone cable. Cat3 (phone cable) is okay for analogue but no good for repurposing if we ever go digital. Wire each room socket back to a UTP Patch Panel in the comms room. You can then choose where to make those sockets live by connecting up individual rooms or by looping them all through the back of the patch.

If you don't need so many data outlets then you can split a 24 port UTP patch panel between data and telephony. Don't mix the two though. Wire your data ports in each room back to the patch, then use short Cat cable links to wire the patch to your network switch.


Finally, multi-room music...

Really for this you have to start off with some idea of a realistic budget for what you want to achieve.
 
Where you will need more phone sockets is if you plan to connect Sky boxes up in each room. [/QUOTE]

I don't follow this. Sky boxes are not required to be connected to phone lines anymore.
 
There are (in general) 5x input cables feeding in to a multi-switch. These are the four feeds from a Quattro LNB plus one feed that could be a direct input from a TV aerial, or it could be a combined (multiplexed) feed from TV aerial, FM aerial and a DAB aerial.
"A picture is worth a thousand words":-
http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/multiswitches.htm
 
1. To get Sky in each of the rooms, should I run Sky shot gun cable (WF65?) between the dish and each room directly or can I take x (how many?) cables from the dish directly to the comms room and into a multi switch and then Sky shotgun (or 2 sets of WF100 cables) to each room?

2. How many WF100 cables should I run to each room from a multi switch (I personally think one is enough as I could always split an amplified signal when it comes into the room as it's coming from the amplifer anyway in the comms room?
Don't think in terms of "terrestrial" and "satellite" for cable - just run minimum of 2off cables to each "watching point". A good cable will carry terrestrial TV, satellite, DAB, ... - or a combination. As hinted at above, many multiswitches have a 5th input for TV/FM/DAB and this will be sent down the same cable as the satellite signals. Just use a diplexer/triplexer plate to separate them out again behind the TV.

Key thing - do not skimp on the cable. There is some truly really awfully crap cable for sale - some of it sold as various descriptions intended to suggest that it's good quality. WF100 is (as far as I'm aware) considered to be "the dogs danglies" in this respect and in the grand scheme of things isn't expensive.
If you buy anything else, then first thing you must do is look at it's construction. Central solid copper core (look out for copper coated steel or aluminium), surrounded by either foam (preferred) or cellular plastic spacer (OK for indoor, but can 'pipe' water into your kit if used outdoors), then a solid copper foil screen plus copper braid, and finally the outer sheath.
3. Can the WF100 cables that come to each room from the comms room carry both the DAB and Digital TV signal? If so, how do I think separate it when it comes into each room?
Yes, as above - just stuff the signals into the multiswitch and they'll all arrive at all the outlets.
4. How do I handle multi room audio
What's your budget ? What's your design goals ? I have this piece of string here - might be the right length for you :mrgreen:

Simple methods include just having one amplifier and lots of twin core cables to multiple speakers. Some years ago now I got sent to help a friend of the boss who was struggling to wire up his apartment overlooking the Med. Yeah it sounds more glamorous than it was, I didn't leave the apartment all the time I was there. He'd got a matrix amplifier that allowed multiple sets of speakers to source from multiple inputs - so each room had some phono sockets for inputs, and from the amp you could select any input to any speaker. That doesn't scale too well with lots of rooms, and of course it's not that convenient having one central amp.

Or there's the option of small "in wall" amplifiers in each room and distribute the signal to them. That means in each room you can listen to the common signal or switch to your local input.

And then there's systems like the Sonos kit that's wireless and allows many permutations of inputs to speakers. Apple have their AirPlay system (3 party kit avaoiable). And so on. These are generally much more flexible, but expensive.
If you are "into technology" then there's a number of open source systems like MythTV, Kodi, XBMC and others I can't remember. I use MythTV as my PVR and it allows an arbitrary number of "beckends" with tuners and storage to feed programs to an arbitrary number of "frontends" that drive TVs. At the moment I believe there's some good progress being made towards a capable frontend running on the new Raspberry Pi3 which should bring the hardware costs down.


EDIT:
For the satellite signals in particular, consider the cable lengths involved. If going to your comms room and out again means adding a lot of cable then you may need to reconsider either the topology, or potentially use a larger dish to compensate for signal losses in the cable.
 
WF100 is (as far as I'm aware) considered to be "the dogs danglies" in this respect and in the grand scheme of things isn't expensive.
Also, it's available in 6 colours, which makes it easy to determine which end is which.
 
SimonH2,
Yes have already bought more than 500m of Webro WF100 cable. From the chimney (where the dish will be installed to the comms room) I would say it is approx 30-40m and similarly for the TV and DABs aerial. Then from the comms room multi switch to the further room (loft room), it is 20m each.

For speaker cable, I am using that shown in the photo below. I wasn't sure what to go for so I bought what I considered quite expensive, 50m of 4mm two core speaker cable. I know its CCA and not solid core. I'm not sure what my strategy is at the moment, perhaps cable it to one docking area in each room (near the door?) or take it back to a comms room like I read someone else planning to do.

speaker wire.JPG
 
From the chimney (where the dish will be installed to the comms room) I would say it is approx 30-40m and similarly for the TV and DABs aerial. Then from the comms room multi switch to the further room (loft room), it is 20m each.
So around 60m in total then. That's a reasonably long run, but WF100 has somewhat lower losses than WF65 (as used in a lot of "shotgun" installs). I'll have to leave it to someone with more knowledge than I have to say if the losses will be significant enough to need further consideration.
 
I've had a few professional installer guys come round and say to me to use WF 100 cable so I think I should be okay. Does it matter this distance after the multi switch? Since the signal is being amplified from the multi switch I didn't think there will be an issue about distance.

How does that speaker cable look?
 
I've had a few professional installer guys come round and say to me to use WF 100 cable so I think I should be okay. Does it matter this distance after the multi switch? Since the signal is being amplified from the multi switch I didn't think there will be an issue about distance.

How does that speaker cable look?
No problem re satellite cable distance. The signal is already amplified by the LNB.

Personally I think that CCA speaker cable is rubbish. 4mm copper mains cable would be better and probably cheaper.
 

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