Plug socket

[davidguernsey]

Hello,

I would like to install a plug socket in an under stairs cupboard. The cuboard is next to the toilet that has an old unused shower in it. The shower is electric and the electrical supply comes through the cupboard in question and through a hole in the wall to the shower (see attached photo 1). The cable passes through a switch on the outside of the cupboard (see attached photo 2). Is its possible to remove the cable from the shower and attach a plug socket?

Thanks,

David

Untitled

• davidguernsey
• 15 Sep 2013
• 1

Untitled

• davidguernsey
• 15 Sep 2013
• 1

 

[securespark]

Possibly. But the fuse or breaker may need downgrading to 30 or 32A.

And there should be RCD protection for it, but you could fit an SRCD: an RCD socket outlet.

The fact there is a switch in circuit is a pain, but you could put the neutrals together in one terminal and the lives in another so as to deactivate the switch.

Better to get rid of it, but that would depend upon how and where the cables run.

 

[davidguernsey]

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.

What would determine if the fuse or breaker needed downgrading? And does the switch have to be removed? I would obviously prefer it not to be there but it is not the end of the world for me if it stays.

Thanks again,

David

 

[riveralt]

What would determine if the fuse or breaker needed downgrading?

The size of the fuse is determined by the size and current carrying capacity of the cable. For 6mm ² T&E that is 46A when clipped direct. The fuse/MCB must always be less than the CCC of the cable so your old shower could have anything from a 32A to a 45A depending on the manufacturers instructions.
For a radial socket circuit which is what you would end up, provided you use the same size cable or go no lower that 4mm ² T&E you would need a 30A or 32A MCB.

does the switch have to be removed? I would obviously prefer it not to be there but it is not the end of the world for me if it stays.

As suggested by securespark you could simply bypass the switch by putting both neutrals together in the supply terminal and do the same with the lives in the supply terminal.

The alternative is to replace the switch with a junction box in its current position.
Either way you will need to introduce an RCD into the circuit - again as suggested by securespark.

 

[WorkHardJobDone]

Why not replace the switch with a fused spur unit and then run as many sockets off that as you like. Regulations say an "unlimited" number of sockets can be run from a fused spur.

The shower cable would go in the "FEED" and the sockets you want to install would be supplied from "LOAD".

You'll be limited to 13amps for ALL the sockets after the fused spur.

 

[riveralt]

Why not replace the switch with a fused spur unit and then run as many sockets off that as you like. Regulations say an "unlimited" number of sockets can be run from a fused spur.

Don't the regulations also say something about RCD's as well - hence securespark's earlier suggestion.

 

[ericmark]

In theory the fuse/MCB should already be sized to cable and should already be RCD protected so as long as the cable will physically fit the socket then there should be no problem.

In practice of course you need to check the RCD and MCB/fuse are in place and if not replacing the existing switch for a RCD FCU may be easy way to correct.

A double socket can only supply 26A so even if supplied with a 40A MCB there is still no problem fitting a double socket and if there is no RCD fitted using a RCD socket would do the job just as well as fitting a RCD FCU.

There are many ways at arriving at same result.

As a P.S. picture shows surface cable so cable does not need RCD protection so RCD socket would be good enough but may be different else where on route. Also as said to start with for a shower likely RCD already fitted.

 

[WorkHardJobDone]

There are many ways at arriving at same result.

Agreed.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Also as said to start with for a shower likely RCD already fitted.

I bet you it's not!

 

[ericmark]

Also as said to start with for a shower likely RCD already fitted.

I bet you it's not!

Good point I don't have any BS7671 books older than 2001 and I have wondered when we required RCD protection on showers?

 

[riveralt]

Good point I don't have any BS7671 books older than 2001 and I have wondered when we required RCD protection on showers?

When the manufacturers changed their instructions regarding RCD's from 'should have' to 'must have'. - circa 2006-2009 for the main producers Triton and Mira.

 

[ericmark]

Good point I don't have any BS7671 books older than 2001 and I have wondered when we required RCD protection on showers?

When the manufacturers changed their instructions regarding RCD's from 'should have' to 'must have'. - circa 2006-2009 for the main producers Triton and Mira.

601-09-02 from BS7671:2001 required RCD protection for a shower, but I have no copies of BS7671:1992 to look any further back.

 

[davidguernsey]

Thanks everyone, most helpful.

 

[Spark123]

The 16th edn 2001 (2004 brown cover) regs didn't require RCD protection for an electric shower (water heater).
I think it came in with the 17th edn regs 2008.

 

[winston1]

A double socket can only supply 26A

A double socket is rated at less than 26A. Each socket is rated at 13A but not both together.