Pocket V full Frame

[Dylan123]

Hi,

I have old first gen double glazing.

aluminium frames
Claw type handle
Very poor insulation heat and sound.
Feel quite flimsy compared to new UPVC

my neighbour just replaced the windows without putting new frames, it looks really smart.

Is there anything I am missing here? Surely this will provide better sound and heat insulation and be cheaper?

or is it not that much cheaper? Why do people always go the whole hog for new frames and windows?

ideally I’m trying to keep the cost down. We def need new windows as it’s too cold in here, but trying to see if there’s cheaper options as a new installation is quite pricey.

many advice on this? Many thanks!

can always do the full job, but if it’s significantly cheaper I can’t see why new frames make a difference.

As the windows are aluminium they actually look less bulky and more refined and UPVC, so if these can just be upgraded....why would I need to start again. Why don’t people do this instead of a more costly total re fit?

Am I missing something here?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Are you meaning replace only the glazing units and leave everything else in-situ?

I suppose the reason most people don't go down this route is

a) it probably doesn't cross their mind as an option.
b) sellers won't push this as an option, indeed, I'm not sure how many double glazing retailers would offer this, you'd probably need to approach a glazier.
c) people like the thought of the entire thing being new and fresh.

Plus it's likely a new installation including frames will have more secure locking mechanisms than your existing older installation.

There's also thermal efficiency to be considered (aluminum vs upvc.) From what I read, both can be equally good depending on the product and quality of installation. However others are better placed to advise on that.

 

[Dylan123]

Are you meaning replace only the glazing units and leave everything else in-situ?

I suppose the reason most people don't go down this route is

a) it probably doesn't cross their mind as an option.
b) sellers won't push this as an option, indeed, I'm not sure how many double glazing retailers would offer this, you'd probably need to approach a glazier.
c) people like the thought of the entire thing being new and fresh.

Plus it's likely a new installation including frames will have more secure locking mechanisms than your existing older installation.

There's also thermal efficiency to be considered (aluminum vs upvc.) From what I read, both can be equally good depending on the product and quality of installation. However others are better placed to advise on that.

https://www.pellabranch.com/blog/gl...nce-full-frame-vs-pocket-window-replacements/

I thought you could either replace the glass, the full lot (rippijg the whole thing out) or as this page says, pocket frame. Which seems to be taking the whole window unit out and sliding a new one in.

in that pic it looks like he’s putting a brand new window (including the frames, handle etc) into the old “hole” without having to dig it all out and render back in.

I have no idea about any of this I just saw it as an option. I may be very confused on this. I def need the whole window unit replaced, not the glass alone.

I assume the window unit sits in a frame which is embedded into the wall. From this page it looks like you don’t have to chip it out and can just put a new one in (including new handle, bars etc)

I may be talking nonsense of course.

my neighbour said he just replaced but kept the frames. His windows all look quite new.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Sorry don't know enough about it to comment. I'd say, given your entire current install is old, a rip and replace of the entire lot would be the better route. Only way you'll know cost wise is to obtain 2-3 quotes for each approach and weigh things up from there.

 

[ronniecabers]

if you are leaving the original ali frame in ( as in the ' pocket lining ' ) , then bear in mind you will still have an old ali frame that isn't as thermally efficient as new , also the old frames may not be deep enough to take the new frames. I would be concerened about how they are coverig gaps for mullions and transoms too ( vertical and horizontal fixed bars ). Another thing to consider is that you will be reducig the amount of light into the building , as you will effectively have a double frame.
The ' pocket windows ' linked to are clearly an American idea and going into an old , sound wooden window surround, Unless you have a ' deep ' enough frame existing ( at least 70mm from inside edge to back edge ) then ' pocket lining with newer upvc would not work properly....personally I'm with diy_fun_uk here , get a price for new modern upvc/ali iwith the old frames completely renewed

 

[Dylan123]

if you are leaving the original ali frame in ( as in the ' pocket lining ' ) , then bear in mind you will still have an old ali frame that isn't as thermally efficient as new , also the old frames may not be deep enough to take the new frames. I would be concerened about how they are coverig gaps for mullions and transoms too ( vertical and horizontal fixed bars ). Another thing to consider is that you will be reducig the amount of light into the building , as you will effectively have a double frame.
The ' pocket windows ' linked to are clearly an American idea and going into an old , sound wooden window surround, Unless you have a ' deep ' enough frame existing ( at least 70mm from inside edge to back edge ) then ' pocket lining with newer upvc would not work properly....personally I'm with diy_fun_uk here , get a price for new modern upvc/ali iwith the old frames completely renewed

ok thanks.

I don’t really know my arse from my elbow on windows but wanted to see if it could be done more cheaply.

sad to see the resultant increase in house value is quite low....personal loan it is!

whatever the weather it needs doing, but I will shop around for the lowest quote as one of the big firms quoted stupid money. I made another thread....quoted £8k for a front door and a bay window.

I’m going to go wood for the front door (mate is a builder) but need 2 bays, back door, French door, and 2 casements.
A few people I spoke to said if it’s basic UPVC I could do the lot for £8k!

 

[diy_fun_uk]

ok thanks.

I don’t really know my arse from my elbow on windows but wanted to see if it could be done more cheaply.

sad to see the resultant increase in house value is quite low....personal loan it is!

whatever the weather it needs doing, but I will shop around for the lowest quote as one of the big firms quoted stupid money. I made another thread....quoted £8k for a front door and a bay window.

I’m going to go wood for the front door (mate is a builder) but need 2 bays, back door, French door, and 2 casements.
A few people I spoke to said if it’s basic UPVC I could do the lot for £8k!

I would suggest you avoid the 'big firms' if by this you mean those that serve the entire UK. Size of company does not equate to a better product, better installation or better price.

I'd suggest you obtain at least 3 quotes from local-ish companies. This could encompass a 'locally large' company i.e. one that serves only your county and (if you're in a small county) immediately surrounding counties. Also a couple of smaller local companies. I know it's sh1t having to find £££ you don't have, however following ronniecabers thoughts and my own, in your scenario I do believe you're better getting the entire lot replaced i.e. leave nothing of the existing frames.

Oh and don't necessarily go with the cheapest quote as you often get what you pay for. e.g. if you get quotes (I've just made these up, based on nothing) for £6k, £4.5k and £3k then yes, the £3k looks attractive. However you'd want to know the basics from the company e.g. what accreditations do they hold (relating to security etc) what materials do they use (upvc profile and glass) and what brand of window mechanisms (including locking components) do they use.

Our local council has a 'trusted trader' section on the website. This has real world ratings of local companies. Also, to become a trusted trader, companies need to meet certain criteria. Maybe check to see if there's anything similar in your area, might give you some pointers as to who to approach.