Poor Lithium Ion Batteries

[Paul Barker]

Anyone else have trouble with Li Ion batteries?

I have a whole Makita 18v 3ah system and also hilti 36v liion batteries

The batteries seemed to go pathetic (all of them) within a few weeks ownership. They overheat and haven't got enough torque for the tools intended purpose. The Makita angle grinder and circular saw are vertually rendered useless the jiggsaw isn't far behind.

The Hilti te7a is a shaddow of the 6a which uses nicads.

My 15v 3 ah hilti nimh batteried pistol drill is 10 times more powerful than the 18v 3ah li ion makita drill.

I suspect it is the battery type, since it is common to makita and Hilti, both very good makes.

I'm going to sell this lot on ebay and go back to chorded tools.

 

[oilman]

I find the use of lion batteries surprising. Most applications for these are random charging from any level, and very low discharge. Similarly NiMH batteries are ok for random charging, and relative low discharge rates. When it comes to high current demand, NiCad seem to still have the edge, only proviso is discharge properly and then full charge.

I think there's a bit of marketing going on here as people will always buy the new improved Daz.

 

[^woody^]

Its a bit worrying if the whole cordless market is moving towards lithium, and they turn out to be crap.

Does google throw up any similar comments, or could it just be a Makita thing?

When it comes to high power over relatively short periods, then Nicads do seem ideal. The only real advantage with Li-ion would be the low self discharge, so that infrequent use would not mean a dead tool when you want it.

But for daily pro use, if A/hr capacities are the same I can't see any real advantage with Li-ion - possibly weight with the bigger voltages, but I don't know how much of an issue that is.

I also note that Li-ion batteries in many other uses do have a tendency to explode!

 

[Paul Barker]

The advantage is weight.

Its not a makita thing You cant get better quality or more pricey than a hillti te7a which shows exactly the same trend with both of it's new batteries. All equipment new.

Basically the capacity writen on the battery is a lie.

Under the load the tools are designed for the batteries bottle out very fast, and never even from fresh charge have the same torque of a Nicad powered tool with 2/3rds of the printed ah rating and the same voltage.

I have direct comparrisons my mate has my old time served hilti te6a and quite honestly I wish I had it back, with it's original 5 year old nicad 36v battery it blasts the new te7a with it's greater capacity liion battery away.

I'm sick as a pig as I spent quite a bit on all this gear treating myself. Since I have chronic fatigue syndrome though very much 90% normal strength now, I like to spend my money on making my job go easier.

The only tool out of

Makita circular saw, jiggsaw, angle grinder I shall keep is an impact driver, it doesn't esert too mch drain on the battery.

The te7a will have to go on ebay with all the Makita li ion gear.

Quite honestly I only converted after I was using my 24v bosh in his home and he said "I've got the new li ion one it's great". On reflection he was bragging on the my dad's got a better car than your dad lines. Wish I'd never met him.

anyone asks me will get the truth. Keep your old drill. You know what that 24v Bosh would continue to drill a hole for longer than the new liion drill with its really old batteries.

Thing is being an electronics person also I always look after my nicads. The trick is to only charge them just before you need to use them if you can bare to, as left in a discharged state in storage is best, Lso what everyone knows allow them to fully discharge. ALl that requires is at least two batteries per equipment and a fast charger (which insidently usually pulse charges, in itself better for the bateries)

 

[crazycanuck]

everyone is having the same battery problems!
go to google type in battery school and learn what were all doing wrong

 

[disinfo]

The advantage is weight.

Its not a makita thing You cant get better quality or more pricey than a hillti te7a which shows exactly the same trend with both of it's new batteries. All equipment new.

Basically the capacity writen on the battery is a lie.

Under the load the tools are designed for the batteries bottle out very fast, and never even from fresh charge have the same torque of a Nicad powered tool with 2/3rds of the printed ah rating and the same voltage.

I have direct comparrisons my mate has my old time served hilti te6a and quite honestly I wish I had it back, with it's original 5 year old nicad 36v battery it blasts the new te7a with it's greater capacity liion battery away.

I'm sick as a pig as I spent quite a bit on all this gear treating myself. Since I have chronic fatigue syndrome though very much 90% normal strength now, I like to spend my money on making my job go easier.

The only tool out of

Makita circular saw, jiggsaw, angle grinder I shall keep is an impact driver, it doesn't esert too mch drain on the battery.

The te7a will have to go on ebay with all the Makita li ion gear.

Quite honestly I only converted after I was using my 24v bosh in his home and he said "I've got the new li ion one it's great". On reflection he was bragging on the my dad's got a better car than your dad lines. Wish I'd never met him.

anyone asks me will get the truth. Keep your old drill. You know what that 24v Bosh would continue to drill a hole for longer than the new liion drill with its really old batteries.

Thing is being an electronics person also I always look after my nicads. The trick is to only charge them just before you need to use them if you can bare to, as left in a discharged state in storage is best, Lso what everyone knows allow them to fully discharge. ALl that requires is at least two batteries per equipment and a fast charger (which insidently usually pulse charges, in itself better for the bateries)

Paul,

When I first read this post a few weeks ago I honestly thought that you must have some duff batteries, I have the Makita LXT gear also (drill,impact,circular,grinder)

Unfortunely 2 / 3 weeks later I now realise how right you are, Got the circular out to cut some 12mm WBP the other day and it struggled like mad, on a fully charged battery too.

I bought the saw / grinder bodies from america, however I got the drill and impact set from a UK supplier and the are CE marked.

Am peed off to say the very least, not sure what i'm going to do about it, I bought the makita set in the hope that it would last me for years as my previous drill did.

Been looking at the Hilti 151 and 181's but i'd have to get quite a lot of money back on the makita stuff to be able to shell out Hilti prices, and I really would like to keep the impact driver.

Matt

 

[Paul Barker]

Hi Matt, well I knew I wasn't going mad.

I am disgusted that the manufacturers have brought products to market which are unfit for the purpose.

They should have stuck with nicads and nmh's.

Like you I like the impact driver.

At the moment I am working away so have refined my kit to just the 15v hilti pistol drill hilti core drill and hilti sds drill/chaser and a cheap angle grinder with diamond blade a saw blade and metal cutting blade.

The saw blade in the angle grinder is satisfactory for lifting boards.

I have to restrict power tools because of theft fears while away.

My liion gear will all be on ebay soon. I'm happy to be back on 110v and a nicmh pistol drill. I'll probably sell both the batteries with the impact driver and charger as a set because they are powerful enough for it. The circular saw and jiggsaw are not in themselves faulty so they will be listed alone.
Even the hilti te7c and it's two liion batteries will be sold, as it is already weakening and never was as good as the nicad vesrion te6a which is a fraction of the cost.

Yep even Hilti have it wrong. liion is a dead method for me.

 

[seaangler]

may be a idea to send the batteries back to makita - they have a chip in them that will tell how many charges the batt has had etc

i would expect makita to swop anything that isnt up to scratch

 

[disinfo]

may be a idea to send the batteries back to makita - they have a chip in them that will tell how many charges the batt has had etc

i would expect makita to swop anything that isnt up to scratch

Thing is, whats the point?

Seems like its definitely the battery technology, rather than "defective" batteries. So even if i did send them back, i'm only going to be in the same place in another couple of months.


Matt

 

[Paul Barker]

That's my view, if Hilti can't get it right who can?

Get out of liion technology until they have found something that is sutainable.

 

[thompsk]

Had the problem with Hilti te 36 li ion batts going faulty within a week of being purchased, then the replaicement went faulty as well....no impressed with the mutts nuts hilti at all, yet my makita lxt fine... no problems at all

 

[disinfo]

Well, i've written to Makita and sent them loads of links to people complaining about Li-Ion performance, will be interesting to see what they have to say.

Doesnt make much difference to me now though, as i've just bought a Hilti 18V Ni-Mh

Makita stuff will be going on ebay tomorrow.

 

[disinfo]

Mathew

I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing problems with your 18V cordless tools. I suggest you take the batteries back to the seller, who may possibly be able to check them out on our battery checker or replace them under warranty if they have failed.
If you need any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me

Regards,
Tony

Tony Coleman
Technical Co-Ordinator
Makita (UK) Ltd
T: 01908 211678
F: 01908 612672
W: www.makitauk.com

 

[Paul Barker]

Had the problem with Hilti te 36 li ion batts going faulty within a week of being purchased, then the replaicement went faulty as well....no impressed with the mutts nuts hilti at all, yet my makita lxt fine... no problems at all

Thanks for posting this, I just couldn't believe my bad luck I sold my te6a to my mate and if we are working together I pick it up instead of my te7a as it's shorted and more powerful converse to what the case should be.

I now use a beaten up 110v te24 bought on ebay for £61 including delivery what a fantastic machine, light enough for all uses but heavy enough for me not to bother loading my te72 onboard. The te72 is a clearly great wall basher but seldom required any more. I had to refine my stuff for working away in the week, can't just nip home for the pick of any tool you care to mention.

When I'm not working 12 hour days away from home I'll put all the li stuff on ebay and will never buy it ever again. I don't thionk they can ever get it right it seems to me it is a poor battery medium for heavy duty needs. I would rather drag a generator around with me and have a tool that has 20 times the welly..

 

[Paul Barker]

Mathew

I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing problems with your 18V cordless tools. I suggest you take the batteries back to the seller, who may possibly be able to check them out on our battery checker or replace them under warranty if they have failed.
If you need any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me

Regards,
Tony

Tony Coleman
Technical Co-Ordinator
Makita (UK) Ltd
T: 01908 211678
F: 01908 612672
W: www.makitauk.com

Typiocal washing hands of it, I bought mine from America so it'll get sold. The point is that makita made some bad batteries, quite a lot it now transpires.