Poor Toilet Flush

[diy_darren]

Excuse my lack of correct terminology here, but I have a toilet that does not flush correctly. Sometimes you get a proper flush, other times you get an attempt but not enough water flows into the pan to cause a full flush. Subsequent flushes (after a failure) just result in small amounts of water flowing into the pan.

I've taken the top off the cistern and it is filling OK and the float is working OK. The exterior handle is attached firmly and pulling the level internally. It seems as though there is a suction problem and the water is not getting into the central chamber? Are there any seals I should be checking or is it a case of replacing the central chamber?

 

[sooey]

The syphon "central chamber" has a plastic membrane at the bottom of it to lift the water when you operate the lever, this membrane will have split and needs replacing. If you're lucky you can split the syphon (plastic nut holds it together ) and its an easy job. If the syphon does'nt split you will have to seperate the pan from the cistern to get it out.

 

[Softus]

It sounds as though you have a conventional siphon flush operation, in which case the cause is one of the following:

1. Worn diagram washer.
2. Cracked siphon.
3. Out of shape siphon.

Depending on the brand/model of siphon, you might have to remove it all from the cistern in order to maintain/replace it.

If you can post a picture then I (or someone else) can instantly identify what you'd have to do.

 

[diy_darren]

I can take a picture if needed, but it's quite hard to see the parts.

On top of the syphon is

Dudley
Hi-Flow
S 9B
Syphon

and the system is pretty much as illustrated here

 

[dal5band]

If your tank is separate from the loo and there is a visible flush pipe, there is a large nut under the tank. with the water all drained, undo the nut and the whole flush thing can be lifted out of the tank.

 

[JohnD]

If you have to take the syphon out, you might like to fit a "Flapper" valve.

These give a good, strong, quiet flush, and have hardly any moving parts, so less prone to wearing out and stopping working, like all syphons do.

 

[Softus]

These give a good, strong, quiet flush, and have hardly any moving parts, so less prone to wearing out and stopping working, like all syphons do.

I strongly disagree on all counts.

 

[EliteHeat]

I strongly disagree on all counts.

Really? I haven't fitted one of these, mostly 'cos I'm too cheap to pay £12 for something when I can pay £3.50 instead. But I have thought about it ....

Why are they no good?

 

[Softus]

I haven't fitted one of these, mostly 'cos I'm too cheap to pay £12 for something when I can pay £3.50 instead.

But I have thought about it ....

I'm lost by that - are you saying that you buy flapper valves, or just thought about it?

Why are they no good?

I didn't say that they were "no good" - we're comparing flapper valves to top quality (because I only buy top quality) siphons, so:

1. In my experience the flush isn't better, or stronger, or quieter.
2. The number of moving parts is exactly the same, or greater.
3. I don't agree that the MTBF is defined simply by the number of moving parts.

 

[dal5band]

The siphon is "failsafe" as far as wasting water goes. If a siphon flush goes wrong, water does not flow at all. If a flapper valve goes wrong, you generally get running water going down the loo.

 

[diy_darren]

I ended up removing the whole cistern and pipework as it was connected to the actual toilet

Below is what I found when I managed to get the syphon out. To me it just looks like a piece of plastic that has now ripped? Can I replace it with a well cut piece of plastic, or am I looking at someone else's bodge work?

If I have to buy a new piece it can't be too expensive, just everywhere is shut and it'd be nice to have a working toilet

 

[gas4you]

Should be able to buy this from the likes of Plumb Center etc.

 

[JohnD]

yes, that's the piece that has worn out. they all do that. Pretty shoddy,huh? That's' why i don't like them. You may be able to get a bit of plastic to fit, in your DIY shed (they are usually oval now rather than round), otherwise get a complete new syphon (they are only a few pounds) or flapper valve or equivalent Fluidmaster replacement. In an emergency you can cut a replacemnt disk from a bit of old fertilser bag or other thickish film. The cost of the bit of plastic is nothing compared to the work of getting the syphon out, usually with rusty and jammed screws and with your shoulder wedged up into a cramped space while you lie on the toilet floor cursing with rage.

Now you have taken the old one off you have done most of the work, especially if the old screws were stuck or rusty..

You will probably find a soft rubber "doughnut" washer where the cistern sits on the back of the pan. You can buy a new one of these as well, to reduce the risk of future leaks. Try to replace any worn, rusty or hardened parts to delay the next time it goes wrong.

p.s. you can replace the wearing part of a Flapper without dismantling the cistern

 

[sooey]

You can cut one out of a rubble sack, double it up if you want it'll do just as well as a new one.

 

[diy_darren]

The cost of the bit of plastic is nothing compared to the work of getting the syphon out, usually with rusty and jammed screws and with your shoulder wedged up into a cramped space while you lie on the toilet floor cursing with rage.

You will probably find a soft rubber "doughnut" washer where the cistern sits on the back of the pan.

I experienced that cursing and rage moment, but mainly with the leaking tap! It was so corroded I couldn't get to the screws and when I did it was in such bad snape it rounded more than unscrewed!

I think I'll go to the plumbing shop tomorrow then as I wanted to replace a few of the seals I removed. Poor things gave it up and crumbled out of my way during dismantling