Porches and Permitted Development

[Sloth]

Morning all. Just wondered if I could canvass opinion on the above.

Background - we purchased a semi in an AONB, with permission granted for a 2 story side extension, which is currently being built. Part of the plans involved relocating the "front" door from the side elevation, and cutting a new opening on the front of the property.

We've now decided we'd like to add a porch around the new front door, I believe I can do this under permitted development (Class D). It will be under 3m tall and less than 3sqm external, and not less than 2m from any boundary.

Am I correct to assume that the fact that this is a new external door has no bearing on permitted development rights with regards to porches? (We have not had permitted development rights withdrawn and we are not subject to an article 4 direction). I have trawled the web but can't find anything specific!

I realise I could contact the planning department but based on my previous dealings with them a) it is very difficult to speak to anyone who understands the specifics, b) they will not commit to anything unless you pay them money, and c) they will suggest you submit a planning application even if it is not required!

Thanks

 

[tony1851]

Unfortunately it is not possible to put in a new door, and then build a porch, under permitted development.

 

[Sloth]

Thanks for the reply Tony.

So are you saying adding a porch under Permitted Development only applies to original doorways? i.e. (from the section covering extensions) “Original” - means a building as it existed on 1 July 1948 where it was built before that date, and as it was built when built after that date.

I could not see any mention of this under The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 for section D - it simply says:

Permitted development D. The erection or construction of a porch outside any external door of a dwellinghouse. Development not permitted D.1 Development is not permitted by Class D if— (a) permission to use the dwellinghouse as a dwellinghouse has been granted only by virtue of Class M, N, P or Q of Part 3 of this Schedule (changes of use); (b) the ground area (measured externally) of the structure would exceed 3 square metres; (c) any part of the structure would be more than 3 metres above ground level; or (d) any part of the structure would be within 2 metres of any boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse with a highway.

 

[^woody^]

There is no requirement that the door the porch surrounds has to be original to the house.

The porch is PD if it surrounds an entrance to the dwelling house.

 

[Sloth]

I prefer your interpretation woody! That's my understanding of it.

In theory there is no limit to the number of porches you could attach to the front of your house, providing you meet all the other dimensional criteria.

 

[tony1851]

Sorry gents, but there are just two appeal cases covering this situation. In both, the Inspector determined that a porch is not p.d. if it is built around a door which is not an original external door.

 

[^woody^]

Sorry gents, but there are just two appeal cases covering this situation. In both, the Inspector determined that a porch is not p.d. if it is built around a door which is not an original external door.

Really? What are the other facts that applied to the decision?

 

[tony1851]

There is no requirement that the door the porch surrounds has to be original to the house.

The porch is PD if it surrounds an entrance to the dwelling house.

You are quite right, and I stand corrected.

A reading of the two cases suggests that it is not possible to build a porch and install a new door in the same operation.
The inference must be that it is possible to build a porch over a new door if they are done separately. Quite what the time-gap would be
I wouldn't know, but there it is, and of course the p.d. rule does say any door.

So there you have it; Woody 1, Tony 0

 

[^woody^]

So there you have it; Woody 1, Tony 0

Result! Not bad for a guess.

I was just surmising, based on the quirks of the PD guidance. As long as it's a door straight into the existing house it can have a porch around it.

And away goals count double.

 

[Sloth]

Cheers gents.

I didn't actually see anything in the order regarding doing works "in the same operation". Obviously in appeal cases that has been an issue though.

So I guess it is a case of fit the new front door - put tools away - get tools out - build porch around existing doorway under permitted development.

Silly really!

 

[tony1851]

Perhaps take a photo of the new door finished and tidied up, before starting on the porch?

 

[wessex101]

Not quite the same but a while ago I put in a pre-application request to one of my local councils for a new doorway and porch and they confirmed that provided the floor area did not exceed the limit etc. it was permitted development. Obviously they had not read the appeal decisions on Planning Jungle.

Sometimes the planners do not fully understand the more complex rules themselves and you can gain an advantage by going through the pre-app. I once managed to get a wrap around side and rear extension under PD.

The other thing that might need querying is the AONB status, not sure how this affects PD rights, does the Council have to issue article 4 direction or is it covered by other legislation?

 

[Sloth]

This article...

http://planninglawblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/permitted-development-excluded-in-aonb.html

...details most of the implications on PD within an AONB.

The enlargement of a dwellinghouse consisting of an addition or alteration to its roof (under Class B) is also excluded in an AONB, but minor alterations to the roof under Class C are not excluded. The erection or construction of a porch outside any external door of a dwellinghouse (under Class D) is not excluded either.

 

[wessex101]

Thanks for that, I will file it away in my Planning folder in case I ever get a project in an AONB.