POWER BUTTON WONT TURN UNIT OFF & WATER FLOW SUDDENLY HA

[free4all]

Having used my TRITON Zante 10.5Kw electric shower for some considerable time without any problems, yesterday it developed two first-time faults, as listed in the topic title.

General background info:

Shower unit has two rotating temp settings dials. The top dial has 3 distinct temp settings (hot, warm, cold). The bottom dial is totally adjustable. There is an on/off power button & a power indicator light. The button activates the unit when depressed (sunken) & cuts power when in the off (flush) position. The shower is directly connected to the mains water supply. The shower is on its own electricity circuit to the mains box.

I'm the sole resident of a 4th floor flat. Whilst I don't generally consider the water pressure to therefore be great (though I don't know the actual bar pressure), when fitted the shower engineer reported that the flow rate definately was sufficient for this unit. There are sometimes fluctuations in water temp/flow whilst in use, I presume due to other residents below me drawing from the communal feed. But even when, to my certain knowledge, water has been simultaneously drawn from another point (i.e. within this residence) the water flow from the unit has never been reduced to a mere trickle, nor cut-out completely.

Problem:

Yesterday the initial problem presented following just a few seconds of usage. When attempting to temporarily turn the shower off, (thereby stopping the water flow) the unit power button no longer functioned when I returned it to its off/flush position. Water continued to flow at the usual rate. After repeated failed attempts I was forced to cut the power to the unit via the electricity supply isolating wall switch.

A v. short while later, having used the shower for about 4-5 minutes (activated by restoring the power via the mains isolating switch......the unit on/off button remaining unresponsive) the water flow suddenly cut-out completely, without prior warning. The power indicater light remained on, and what I presume was the motor/heating elements could be heard still humming within the unit housing. I was forced to quickly switch the unit off again via the isolating wall switch.

Whilst the 3-settings top dial had been set to hot, the bottom dial was only slightly above halfway in its temp scale setting. These are my usual settings at this time of year.......when the mains cold water supply is at considerably lower temp. I wouldn't therefore say that I'd been running the unit 'in the red'. The mains water supply was immediately checked and found to be running at normal pressure.

When initially checked a minute or so later the water flow from the unit remained off. However, a recheck a short while later resulted in the unit once again emitting water at its usual maximum flow rate (I was only testing it on cold, with both temp dials on minimum setting). However, the on/off button was still unresponsive.

Bizarrely, having repeatedly checked the unit again today, the on/off power button is now functioning normally (no exhibited sign that there was ever a problem). Though I didn't check it running for an extended period of time (only for 3-4 minutes) the water was also flowing at its usual rate and temp (when the dials were set to the same positions as prior to yesterdays water flow cut-off).

Any insight on these events would be hugely appreciated......as I am definately in no hurry to repeat the bracing experience of having to de-soap myself with jugs of cold water any time soon (not nearly as much fun as it sounds!)

 

[electronicsuk]

May be a faulty/sticking solenoid. What happened to the power light when the unit was switched on but with no water flowing through?

 

[free4all]

Hi.

Thanks a lot for your response.

There seemed to be no loss of power itself. The indicator light remained on at its usual brightness until the unit was switched off via the mains isolating switch.

What exactly is the function of the solenoid?

Cheers!

 

[Steve]

The solenoid is the part that opens and closes the water valve.

When the water kept running (wouldnt switch off), was it still hot?

What you should understand is that the electric shower has no pump.

And the bottom dial (constantly variable) actually controls the water flow. By varying the water flow, it alters the temperature. When you turn it up, the water slows down, so it spends more time inside the unit being heated.

The bottom dial has no bearing on anything electrical, it is a flow limiter for the water.

By setting the top dial to high, the shower's elements will always run at full belt. The medium setting runs on one element.

All electric showers work this way.

One thing I will say is please dont over-use the shower isolator switch on the wall too much - they arent the best switches in the world, not normally designed for switching under load.

 

[electronicsuk]

There seemed to be no loss of power itself. The indicator light remained on at its usual brightness until the unit was switched off via the mains isolating switch.

What exactly is the function of the solenoid?

Cheers!

As above, it switches the water on/off. It generally consists of an electromagnetic coil which controls some form of valve/plunger in order to shut off the water. The symptoms you describe would fit - the power light being on would suggest that the supply to the shower is still good, but the solenoid valve is not operating as it should.

The position of the solenoid inside the shower should be fairly apparent as it's more or less the first thing the water goes through. It will have two terminals which should have 230v across them when the shower is running.

 

[free4all]

Matthew, Steve...

Thank you both for your time/effort in explaining all this for me.

If I could impose on you a little more, I have just a couple of things I'm not clear on....

Was this malfunction of the solenoid an occurance that is more than likely to keep reoccuring.....even if randomly/intermittently? Or could this kind of thing simply have been a one-off occurance that there is no fundamental reason to believe may happen again in the near future?

Basically......if it were your unit would you already be ordering a new solenoid, based on this (so far) single event? Or would you be waiting a little while to see if other symptoms may occur that just might point to something else/additional?

Was the problem of the power button failing to shut off the unit a seperate issue to the problem of the water flow cutting out.......and is therefore (despite both happening for the first time within minutes of each other) simply a case of extreme coincidence......and both merely seperate symptoms of a unit generally 'giving up the ghost'?

Or could there be a root connection between them?

In either case (as the first observed fault) what might be the cause of the power button failing to respond.......then working exactly as desired the following day?

Again.....thanks for your input!

It's massively appreciated.

As to using the isolating wall switch to switch off the unit power supply on a regular basis..... It's a good point you've made. Thanks.

I never do that though. In an effort to preserve the life of the unit it's always been my practice (at the end of my shower, and whilst the water is still flowing) to turn both dials to their minimum setting and let cold water run through/cool the system for 20-30 secs before using the unit power button to cut power.......and only then switching it off at the wall.

The actions of the other day were emergency measures only that I wasn't fond of having to resort to.

 

[electronicsuk]

Was this malfunction of the solenoid an occurance that is more than likely to keep reoccuring.....even if randomly/intermittently? Or could this kind of thing simply have been a one-off occurance that there is no fundamental reason to believe may happen again in the near future?

Assuming it definitely is the solenoid as we suspect, it's likely to get worse - the mechanism might be badly scaled up, or it might be something else, but it's more than likely a repeatable mechanical fault.

Basically......if it were your unit would you already be ordering a new solenoid, based on this (so far) single event? Or would you be waiting a little while to see if other symptoms may occur that just might point to something else/additional?

I'd probably wait for the problem to happen again, then perform a few tests such as checking that there definitely is power to the solenoid and such. If you can prove it to be at fault, the new part is about £30.

Was the problem of the power button failing to shut off the unit a seperate issue to the problem of the water flow cutting out.......and is therefore (despite both happening for the first time within minutes of each other) simply a case of extreme coincidence......and both merely seperate symptoms of a unit generally 'giving up the ghost'?

Or could there be a root connection between them?

If the solenoid is sticky then it could stick in either the open or closed position, so turning the unit off would not necessarily cause the water to stop flowing.

I never do that though. In an effort to preserve the life of the unit it's always been my practice (at the end of my shower, and whilst the water is still flowing) to turn both dials to their minimum setting and let cold water run through/cool the system for 20-30 secs before using the unit power button to cut power.......and only then switching it off at the wall.

I can't speak for yours, but I know that a lot of modern showers will automatically cut power to the heating elements and run the water for another five seconds before switching off.

 

[free4all]

Thanks for your response once again Matthew!

For if it should happen again.....how does one test a solenoid? Is it simply a case of sticking a voltmeter or something on the connecting points of the part, or is it something more complicated?

If a solenoid is scaled, is it a part that can be descaled? Or is the damage already done by the time it shows symptoms.....and always better to simply replace?

Cheers.

 

[free4all]

As to the delay in switching off.....

Yeah, mine always (the other night excepted) cuts off/out the moment you hit the button.

 

[electronicsuk]

For if it should happen again.....how does one test a solenoid? Is it simply a case of sticking a voltmeter or something on the connecting points of the part, or is it something more complicated?

If the water is stuck on when the shower is supposed to be turned off, a reading of near 0v across the two terminals on the solenoid would suggest it is indeed faulty.

If there is no water flow despite the power being on, a reading of around 230v across the solenoid would indicate it is faulty, as the water should flow whenever there is power to the solenoid.

If a solenoid is scaled, is it a part that can be descaled? Or is the damage already done by the time it shows symptoms.....and always better to simply replace?

Not something I've ever tried, probably a question better suited to the plumbing forum.

 

[free4all]

Cheers, Matthew!

Without people like yourself demonstrating their willingness to impart their knowledge, then ignorameses like me (who form the great uninformed majority) would probably still be rubbing sticks together whenever we fancied a hot meal!

Thanks, not only for myself, but on behalf of everyone you help!