pre wired outside sockets in shed

mnm

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I want to put power in my shed and have read a lot of the threads on here on the subject but i'm a bit confused by the whole part P fixed installation law. I was in B&Q the other day and saw a pre wired outside socket a bit like the armadillo ones everyone seems to disapprove of but it only had a short flexible cable on it which is intended to go straight out of the wall to the sockets outside, with an RCD inside plugging into a normal socket.

I want a similar thing but I want to mount a socket in my shed about 6 mtrs away from the house.

Is there any reason why I cant buy the components seperately i.e. sockets, cable and RCD plug and wire it up myself? Therefore being able to have the sockets in my shed as opposed to on the outside wall of my house. As it would be plugged into an RCD plug in the house surely this would meet Part P requirements? I would intend on running flexible cable from the RCD to a junction box outside and then run SWA cable under ground to the sockets in the shed. This setup would be similar to the Armadillo kit but with a junction box instead of the switches.

This is my first post so be nice![/img]
 
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Welcome mnm......we are always nice :D

I believe this has been debated before, but I'll throw in my thoughts and let others comment if they wish to.

Wiring sockets as you suggest would come under the scope of Part P (as does any fixed installation, even when connected by plug and socket). The only question will be whether it is notifiable to your LABC.

My reading of the document is that it *might* well not be notifiable. However, you are rather blurring the edges of what is fixed wiring and what isn't, particularly with the buried SWA. I would also not suggest it as a good solution if you are planning to use the plug in RCD to avoid doing any testing of the cable to ensure correct installation.

Do you have RCD protection on your house sockets? Or at least the one you were thinking of using? If you do, then using a plug in RCD will not be a good idea, as you will not get discrimination and you may well find the whole house tripped by a fault in the shed.

How far is the shed from the house? Calculations like voltage drop may well be necessary to ensure you get a usable supply in the shed, however it is installed.

You see, there is more to this electrical lark than us just taking your money for doing things anyone can do ;)

It may well be worth calling your local LABC and asking a hypothetical question, as at the end of the day if they are happy not to be notified that solves that problem.

Either way, don't cut corners with the quality of the installation - that is always the thing that matters.
 
I was in B&Q the other day and saw a pre wired outside socket a bit like the armadillo ones everyone seems to disapprove of but it only had a short flexible cable on it which is intended to go straight out of the wall to the sockets outside, with an RCD inside plugging into a normal socket.
What happens to the socket? Does it just dangle, or lie on the ground?

Or do you fix it to the wall? If you do, it is fixed electrical equipment, and therefore part of your electrical installation. From the Building Regulations:

“electrical installation” means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter;

Is there any reason why I cant buy the components seperately i.e. sockets, cable and RCD plug and wire it up myself? Therefore being able to have the sockets in my shed as opposed to on the outside wall of my house. As it would be plugged into an RCD plug in the house surely this would meet Part P requirements? I would intend on running flexible cable from the RCD to a junction box outside and then run SWA cable under ground to the sockets in the shed. This setup would be similar to the Armadillo kit but with a junction box instead of the switches.
Why plug it in? An RCD FCU would be better. Getting your socket circuit given RCD protection would be better still...
 
It may well be worth calling your local LABC and asking a hypothetical question, as at the end of the day if they are happy not to be notified that solves that problem.
.

theres your answer
 
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My reading of the document is that it *might* well not be notifiable. However, you are rather blurring the edges of what is fixed wiring and what isn't, particularly with the buried SWA.
It's not the fixed nature of the wiring that matters, it's whether it's a new circuit, or just "adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit". And is it "an outdoor lighting or electric power installation" or not.

Arguably not - the cable runs outdoors, but the sockets are not outdoors, they are in a shed. But if it were ever tested in court, and "they" said it meant anything to do with taking a supply beyond the house, and the court agreed..... :confused:

How far is the shed from the house?
I want to mount a socket in my shed about 6 mtrs away from the house.

It may well be worth calling your local LABC and asking a hypothetical question, as at the end of the day if they are happy not to be notified that solves that problem.
But it is often easier to ask forgiveness than permission. As long as the job is properly and safely done, then given the reasonable interpretation that a socket in a shed is not an outdoor socket, common sense says, surely, that the council wouldn't go after you if you didn't notify and they thought you should have.

Either way, don't cut corners with the quality of the installation - that is always the thing that matters.
Couldn't agree more.
 
Thanks for your advice and comments

The thing that is bothering me is why I should have to notify my LABC for putting in say the kit from B&Q. This is a DIY kit and is no harder to fit than a plug. Yet you are saying (ban-all-sheds) that because the outside socket is 'fixed' to the wall it comes under part P. However if I was to plug an extension lead in my kitchen and run it out to a 6plug in my leaky old shed 60 feet down the garden so i could power my 3 freezers, tumble dryer and power tools i'm ok because at no point is it 'fixed' to anything.
If this is true then how exactly is the part P protecting anyone?

I just want to put a plug socket in my shed (not leaking, not 60 feet away) to power a drill or inspection lamp and I want to do it safely and without having to remortgage my house. My consumer unit is at the front of the house and there is no practical route to the back of the house to take power from it.

I was originally thinking of the armadillo kit to stay within the regulations but as you are saying this is 'fixed' and therefore under part P. However on their website it states that you do not have to notify because it is not permanently connected to your main house circuit or not 'fixed' to it.

They too quote Part P regs

Surely any issues would only be brought up whan I come to sell the house say with the survey. One surveyor could say its ok because its not fixed and the next could say it is.
 
Thanks for your advice and comments

The thing that is bothering me is why I should have to notify my LABC for putting in say the kit from B&Q. This is a DIY kit and is no harder to fit than a plug. Yet you are saying (ban-all-sheds) that because the outside socket is 'fixed' to the wall it comes under part P. However if I was to plug an extension lead in my kitchen and run it out to a 6plug in my leaky old shed 60 feet down the garden so i could power my 3 freezers, tumble dryer and power tools i'm ok because at no point is it 'fixed' to anything.
If this is true then how exactly is the part P protecting anyone?

I just want to put a plug socket in my shed (not leaking, not 60 feet away) to power a drill or inspection lamp and I want to do it safely and without having to remortgage my house. My consumer unit is at the front of the house and there is no practical route to the back of the house to take power from it.

I was originally thinking of the armadillo kit to stay within the regulations but as you are saying this is 'fixed' and therefore under part P. However on their website it states that you do not have to notify because it is not permanently connected to your main house circuit or not 'fixed' to it.

They too quote Part P regs

Surely any issues would only be brought up whan I come to sell the house say with the survey. One surveyor could say its ok because its not fixed and the next could say it is.
B & Q sell consumer units for joe public to fit yet that falls under part p, if you buy one of these kits and affix the socket to your wall it therefore becomes fixed and it therefore has to comply with regs part p.
 
thompsk";p="846619 said:
B & Q sell consumer units for joe public to fit yet that falls under part p

B&Q also sell a range of other products which must be installed in accordance with the Building Regs. Drainage products Part H, lintels, Part A, toilet extractor fans Part F & windows Part N to name a but a few.

There is no difference.
 
The thing that is bothering me is why I should have to notify my LABC for putting in say the kit from B&Q.
You don't have to notify that, it's a prefabricated assembly etc. It is without doubt part of your installation - I don't see how anybody can argue that electrical equipment which is fixed to the wall is not fixed electrical equipment, but it is exempted from notification in item 3(c) in Schedule 2B.

This is a DIY kit and is no harder to fit than a plug.
Neither are many electrical accessories, and some become notifiable or not depending on what room you fit them in.

Yet you are saying (ban-all-sheds) that because the outside socket is 'fixed' to the wall it comes under part P.
Yes I am - it does come under it because it is part of your electrical installation by dint of it being fixed, so it has to be done safely. But Part P is not synonymous with notification, not everything for which it imposes a safety requirement is notifiable, and that Armadillo set is not.

However if I was to plug an extension lead in my kitchen and run it out to a 6plug in my leaky old shed 60 feet down the garden so i could power my 3 freezers, tumble dryer and power tools i'm ok because at no point is it 'fixed' to anything.
If this is true then how exactly is the part P protecting anyone?
It's protecting the jobs and commercial interests of electricians and organisations such as NICEIC and the ECA, which is what it was intended to do. Well - actually it isn't doing much for electricians given the venal hypocrisy of NICEIC with their 5-day wonders, but there you go.

I just want to put a plug socket in my shed (not leaking, not 60 feet away) to power a drill or inspection lamp and I want to do it safely and without having to remortgage my house. My consumer unit is at the front of the house and there is no practical route to the back of the house to take power from it.
Armoured cable clipped along the side of the house? Or up the wall, through the loft and down again? But I'm glad you said you want the job to be safe, because that it what Part P requires you to do.

I was originally thinking of the armadillo kit to stay within the regulations but as you are saying this is 'fixed' and therefore under part P. However on their website it states that you do not have to notify because it is not permanently connected to your main house circuit or not 'fixed' to it.

They too quote Part P regs
As I said above, Part P applies to it but it is not notifiable. But you were talking about buying individual, and slightly different parts and putting them together, so they would fail to gain an exemption from notification because they wouldn't be a prefabricated set.

The question then is do the Building Regulations, and therefore Part P, apply to what you want to do. It's difficult to see how a buried cable supplying sockets and lights in a shed is not part of your fixed installation, so it does come within the scope of the Building Regulations, therefore Part P applies, which means you have to comply with P1:

P1 Reasonable provision shall be made in the
design and installation of electrical installations
in order to protect persons operating,
maintaining or altering the installations from
fire or injury.


The easiest way to comply with that is to comply with BS 7671 - the IEE Wiring Regulations for a job like yours - with the prefabricated CE marked product from B&Q the reasonable provision would be to follow the manufacturer's instructions.

So as the Building Regulations apply, do they require you to notify LABC? Unless what you're doing is one of the things in Schedule 2B of the Building Regulations you have to notify.

We know it's not exempt via Paragraph 3 of Sched. 2B, and it's also not one of the items in Para. 1.

It would be exempt via Para 2 if (a), (b) and (c) all apply. (a) and (c) definitely do if you're spurring from an existing circuit.

(b) applies if sockets in a shed do not count as an outdoor power installation. It's arguable that they are not outdoors - they are in a building. The guidance in Approved Document P talks about "garden lighting or power installations", not "outdoor" so again you can argue that a socket in the shed is no more a garden power installation than one by the back door etc. Others might argue that "outdoor" and "garden" mean that if you take a circuit out of the house to supply a building that's outdoors or in the garden 2(b) does not apply.

IANAL - you should read the law yourself and decide whether you believe you should notify the work.

Surely any issues would only be brought up whan I come to sell the house say with the survey. One surveyor could say its ok because its not fixed and the next could say it is.
Or one could say it's outside and therefore notifiable, and the other could say it's not outside.
 
B&Q also sell a range of other products which must be installed in accordance with the Building Regs. Drainage products Part H, lintels, Part A, toilet extractor fans Part F & windows Part N to name a but a few.

There is no difference.
They also sell gas appliances and fittings....
 
Approved Doc P gives the clearest info...

Special Installations - garden lighting or power installations.

It even clarifies this in Additional Note G:- Any new work in, for example the garden, or involves crossing the garden is notifiable.

Your proposed method of installation can only be taken as a fixed electrical installation i.e. SWA under the garden, junction box on wall, fixed sockets in shed.

Never in month of Sundays is it exempt from Notification. But write/email your local planning officer (as suggested) and get their reply in writing. If they reply that it is exempt, that's all you need.

Sched 2B 3c: (exempt)
pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections.

what gobbledegook...the only satisfactory interpretation/definition for such wording would be that decided by a court of law depending on the case in hand and the charges. Equipment set is something like a TV, radio isn't it? Or would plugs and sockets count as equipment sets? Who knows? Whilst the QC's are squabbling over that, the judge may direct the court to Approved Document P (the Highway Code of domestic electical installation) and determine that Mr. Smith follwed the guidance to the letter and so did all in his power to do the right thing and case dismissed.
 
Sched 2B 3c: (exempt)
pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections.

what gobbledegook...the only satisfactory interpretation/definition for such wording would be that decided by a court of law depending on the case in hand and the charges. Equipment set is something like a TV, radio isn't it? Or would plugs and sockets count as equipment sets? Who knows? Whilst the QC's are squabbling over that, the judge may direct the court to Approved Document P (the Highway Code of domestic electical installation) and determine that Mr. Smith follwed the guidance to the letter and so did all in his power to do the right thing and case dismissed.


the minute you cut the plug off to thread it through the wall its no longer "integral..."
 

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