Preparation for New Carpets

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I'm about to purchase new carpet for a living room, two bedrooms and landing & stairs. I'm not even considering cutting & fitting the carpet myself, but I am dismayed at the price that carpet shops quote for not-very-good underlay and for incidentals like gripper & door strips. It bumps up the price of the whole job to more than I want to pay!

I quick search suggests that I can buy a decent underlay like Cloud 9's 11mm Nimbus for about a third of the price quoted by the likes of Carpet Right (and others), and gripper is a few pence a metre. I can save a decent amount, by fitting the gripper & underlay first, and just having the carpet itself supplied & fitted by the shop. I read that gripper should be 3-5mm from the skirting. What's the ideal distance? How about the stairs?
 
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As a retailer, it fills me with dismay, when customers come in, asking exactly the same questions that you are asking here. Within reason, most retailers, especially independents, will not only offer competitive prices for carpetsand the accessories, but they offer an expert fitting service, that quite simply, they have to supply legally. If something goes wrong, they have to legally sort it out to the expected standards.

What comeback do you have if you buy online, and later find out that the roll heights were different resulting in lines appearing in the carpet, or if there are issues with the consistancy within the foam (hard lumps are renowned in this underlay and can be felt 'in' the carpet)???

The retailer has a commitment to the customers to do things properly, supply quality product and put anything that goes wrong, right. They are also in business to make a living/profit, and they have had to commit to rent, taxes, wages, utilities etc etc etc. And yet, the general public feel they are being ripped off because a retailer is trying to make a profit.

When you buy underlays, gripper, doorbars etc online, do you know what you are buying? is the product suitable for the application? is there a better product available for different applications? what type of gripper should be used with different types of carpets? should you use short, medium or long pin gripper? standard gripper? concrete gripper? wood gripper? should the gripper be pinned, stick and pinned, drill and plugged or fully stuck? should the gripper be double banked? Will standard bars suffice, or would raised bars be more suited to the underlay choice? What underlays limit shading and trafficking? whats the difference in performance between rubber waffle and puFoam underlay? What advantage does rubber crumb hold over the previous underlays? Why do most shops not offer Felt underlays? whats the difference between Synthetic and natural Felt underlays? What underlay will enhance the performace of a particular type of carpeting? Why do some carpets HAVE to be laid on completely different underlays to those above? Why do some carpets have t be laid one day, but cust in the next?

Most professional and reputable carpet shops are not out to rip you off, they want to provide great advice and service, and shock horror, a small profit to support their families.

Carpet Right is renowned in the trade for a) Being expensive and b) damaging the image of the industry. Buying carpets is NOT a cheap purchase for anyone, at any end of the budget scale, and it's a decision that should be properly advised and specified to the budget that the customer has. If anyone thinks that 50% off plus an extra 20% off plus an extra 5% is an 'honest' pricing policy, have a long hard think about it. Carpet Right don't fit carpets by the way.

Now you can of course buy product on the internet, but unless you know the answer to all the above points - and more - then you take a risk of missing the opportunity to really tailor your carpet installation, in your property to the needs, requirements, and not necerssarily at the expense of 'paying more'.

To answer your question, the gap for the gripper will be dependent on the choice of underlay, carpet, type of subfloor, the fitters preferences and the type of gripper you are using, where in the room you are fitting, architrave shape, depth, stair type, stair shape, landing charactaristics and door bar type.if you manage to gripper the stairs correctly, as a DIY'er i'd be astonished.

And as a rule, most pro's would not recommend an 11mm puFoam on a staircase for a number of reasons, one of which is that there are better, more suitable types of underlay, upon which carpets will ewear betterm keep their appearence better and last longer and that are available at very little cost difference.
 
As a retailer, it fills me with dismay, when customers come in, asking exactly the same questions that you are asking here.

I'm sure it does, given your obvious agenda: but this is a DIY forum, and I wasn't looking to be preached at, less still, read just about every 'scare 'em into the wallet of an honest tradesman' gambit going.

I've been into several local shops, and every single one has recommended PU underlay, including Carpet Right. Their 'luxury' underlay is actually made by Tredair, I think, and is WIDELY available at less than 1/3 of the price they charge. Cloud 9 products are well known too (even by me), and, of course, an online retailer has EXACTLY the same obligation to provide decent products, honestly described, as any other trader. When I buy something expensive, I look for value: am I getting a fair exchange for my money? What added-value can a retailer bring that justifies the mark-up? Often none: the shoe shop hasn't got the size I want and a minimum wage drone offers me a 7 in green when I wanted a black in a 10. The 'specialist' bookshop doesn't have the item that I want, but has a (small) pile of the Hairy Bikers's latest cookbook (but not at a discount) etc.

Is it any wonder that the High Street is full of vacant shops or charity shops? I'm afraid that I do not subscribe to the view that someone who rents a shop has thus any entitlement to make a living, or to make a profit. At least, not at my expense. If I had walked into your shop, and if your 'sales pitch' ran anything like your written style, I'd be out of there PDQ. But thanks.
 
I personally would be looking at something like Axminster Axfelt65 for all areas of a property into which I was laying carpet.

As for gripper width etc, as stated, there are many factors that from your thread are unknown and so it is difficult to advise. Floor fitting and accessories, done correctly, is a little more complicated than basic DIY skills, I would suggest that if you wish to supply the product, do so, but ask your fitter to fit it for you, there maybe a surcharge for this service, but at least it will be done right.

As you say, everyone is entitled to make a living, however, if you want the best service and advice, you may expect to pay towards that service too? as your internet underlay provider will not actually be fitting the product, merely supplying it to your door, they are unlikely to be able to give you any other information, partly the reason why they charge less and leave you to do the donkey work. After all, how difficult can it be to select and lay the correct gripper, underlay and door bars in the correct manner, bespoke, into your home? Partly the reason I suggest , that you have asked for advice/guidance on here? Because the cheap supplier, has cut costs to the minimum and thus don't offer you the service of how to actually install the product you are purchasing from them?

My apologies ifmy post/posts seem blunt, however, being told ' I can get it on the net cheaper' is a not uncommon in the trade, and more often than not people do not consider perhaps that there is considerably more involved in getting a floor fitted correctly . Indeed, tmany of these internet companies will deliver at very low profit margins as they are exposed to little or no risk. And have the minimum of interaction with the consumer,. It's the fitterss/retailers who will usually be asked to get this product onto the floor and consequently have to deal with the consequences should the products not be suitable for the application or not been fitted correctly etc.
 
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I personally would be looking at something like Axminster Axfelt65 for all areas of a property into which I was laying carpet.

Fair enough, but I think it is beyond my budget (except, perhaps, for the stairs). The two bedrooms are guest rooms and likely to be used a few times a year, and the living room is a study/library which will not be subject to heavy use or the rough and tumble of family life.

It would be nice to think that you get what you pay for, and it would be even better if you could always trust the skills, experience and integrity of tradesman (any trade). However, you DON'T get what you pay for, because the 'big boys' price their products based on customer ignorance and credulity: so a 'budget' underlay is £4.99/m (but readily available for a fraction of that), and a 'quality' underlay is £8.99 (but not actually any good, just more expensive), and the 'premium' range has a silly price, not because they expect to sell much of it, but because it positions the 'quality' one (ie the crappy one with a HUGE margin) as the compromise choice. It feels soft and squashy, so it must be good ...

The local independents don't have the market clout to be price makers though: they are price takers, and they follow along behind, making a living where they can. I'm not in the market for £50/m super-premium carpet - I just want something serviceable and inexpensive. Not bothering, at all, and laying decent quality (ie mid-range) laminate, with a couple of rugs is a real alternative. I'm 100% confident about laying that, have done it loads of times, and I've never had any problem. No good for stairs, though, so it's back to the carpet shops ...

But I don't think I will be favouring Carpet Right with my business. My local independent also ****ed me off: I asked about several different possibilities, wanting to weigh up the actual cash difference between, say a £10/m man-made bedroom quality carpet and something like a 40oz 80/20 wool twist, and then decide whether I thought the better product worth the higher price, but although everything was priced at £23.98 for this, and so much for that and so much for the other, the quoted prices just kept coming out at totals in round hundreds. I was left with the strong impression that the estimate was based on what he thought I might be prepared to pay, rather than having honestly pricing the products about which I was enquiring.

Laminate with rugs would be so much less hassle, and I could get the first room laid this evening ...
 
These are our genuine retail prices in underlay

Treadaire Softwalk 9mm puFoam £5m2
Treadaire Dreamwalk 11mm puFoam £5.85m2
Duralay Treadmore Crumb £6.75m2
Axminster Axfelt65 £7.65m2

Those prices include VAT.

Not everyone is out there to rip you off.

As I said, Carpet Right is quite an expensive place to buy carpet, their accessories have always been known to be expensive.

It's just a matter of finding a decent retailer, and perhaps understanding that shops won't always be forthcoming with price breakdowns etc.

Maybe worth looking on checkatrade or NICF and getting a fitter in to quote you up.
 
As a retailer, it fills me with dismay, when customers come in, asking exactly the same questions that you are asking here. Within reason, most retailers, especially independents, will not only offer competitive prices for carpetsand the accessories, but they offer an expert fitting service, that quite simply, they have to supply legally. If something goes wrong, they have to legally sort it out to the expected standards.

What comeback do you have if you buy online, and later find out that the roll heights were different resulting in lines appearing in the carpet, or if there are issues with the consistancy within the foam (hard lumps are renowned in this underlay and can be felt 'in' the carpet)???

The retailer has a commitment to the customers to do things properly, supply quality product and put anything that goes wrong, right. They are also in business to make a living/profit, and they have had to commit to rent, taxes, wages, utilities etc etc etc. And yet, the general public feel they are being ripped off because a retailer is trying to make a profit.

When you buy underlays, gripper, doorbars etc online, do you know what you are buying? is the product suitable for the application? is there a better product available for different applications? what type of gripper should be used with different types of carpets? should you use short, medium or long pin gripper? standard gripper? concrete gripper? wood gripper? should the gripper be pinned, stick and pinned, drill and plugged or fully stuck? should the gripper be double banked? Will standard bars suffice, or would raised bars be more suited to the underlay choice? What underlays limit shading and trafficking? whats the difference in performance between rubber waffle and puFoam underlay? What advantage does rubber crumb hold over the previous underlays? Why do most shops not offer Felt underlays? whats the difference between Synthetic and natural Felt underlays? What underlay will enhance the performace of a particular type of carpeting? Why do some carpets HAVE to be laid on completely different underlays to those above? Why do some carpets have t be laid one day, but cust in the next?

Most professional and reputable carpet shops are not out to rip you off, they want to provide great advice and service, and shock horror, a small profit to support their families.

Carpet Right is renowned in the trade for a) Being expensive and b) damaging the image of the industry. Buying carpets is NOT a cheap purchase for anyone, at any end of the budget scale, and it's a decision that should be properly advised and specified to the budget that the customer has. If anyone thinks that 50% off plus an extra 20% off plus an extra 5% is an 'honest' pricing policy, have a long hard think about it. Carpet Right don't fit carpets by the way.

Now you can of course buy product on the internet, but unless you know the answer to all the above points - and more - then you take a risk of missing the opportunity to really tailor your carpet installation, in your property to the needs, requirements, and not necerssarily at the expense of 'paying more'.

To answer your question, the gap for the gripper will be dependent on the choice of underlay, carpet, type of subfloor, the fitters preferences and the type of gripper you are using, where in the room you are fitting, architrave shape, depth, stair type, stair shape, landing charactaristics and door bar type.if you manage to gripper the stairs correctly, as a DIY'er i'd be astonished.

And as a rule, most pro's would not recommend an 11mm puFoam on a staircase for a number of reasons, one of which is that there are better, more suitable types of underlay, upon which carpets will ewear betterm keep their appearence better and last longer and that are available at very little cost difference.

One of the most informative posts I have EVER read

@ CHarr..........thankfully I have now retired (was also a retailer)

Funniest story I was ever involved in involved a customers internet purchase

you are correct you can buy cheaper online BUT.......... beware!

my potential customer bought online she came home from "shopping" to find a full roll of carpet blocking her drive :LOL:

we only found out we had lost her business (having spent nearly a day measuring up and estimating her house) when she rang to ask if we could help! as she couldn't move it. It turns out that our estimator had told her the job needed 35 linear meters of 5m wide carpet (a full roll) she had ordered this. the internet company delivered this! - trouble is its dam heavy without a forklift!

I often wonder what happened (by the way no way a forklift can drive 25miles on public roads so we declined assistance)
 
my potential customer bought online she came home from "shopping" to find a full roll of carpet blocking her drive :LOL:

Oh dear, ANOTHER scare story. I'm not some stupid dumb blonde tart! I have never suggested buying whole rolls of carpet online, but I can work out, all by myself, that a roll of 1.3m wide underlay is perfectly manageable (except, perhaps in heels). And if I am receiving a delivery, I'll be there to take delivery. (And you know, to be honest, I very much doubt that ANY carrier ever would, or ever did, drop a whole roll of expensive carpet without a signature, but it makes a good story for the credulous...)
 
my potential customer bought online she came home from "shopping" to find a full roll of carpet blocking her drive :LOL:

Oh dear, ANOTHER scare story. I'm not some stupid dumb blonde tart! I have never suggested buying whole rolls of carpet online, but I can work out, all by myself, that a roll of 1.3m wide underlay is perfectly manageable (except, perhaps in heels). And if I am receiving a delivery, I'll be there to take delivery. (And you know, to be honest, I very much doubt that ANY carrier ever would, or ever did, drop a whole roll of expensive carpet without a signature, but it makes a good story for the credulous...)

Your very naive, this has happened to 2 'customers' of mine and 1 of a colleague's who owns an independent shop 20 miles away!!!

If you wish, have a good search through some of the online fitters forums, tales of woe regarding internet orders are rife, very worthwhile reading. I've tried to help you, I've explained the pitfalls, I actually asked in my first response regarding grippers etc all the questions needed to help try and answer your initial questions too, I only see two professional flooring people trying to help you, no Diy'ers seem to have come forward yet to answer your questions, I'm sorry if you don't feel I can be of help to you.
 
I'm not the devil incarnate, I just don't want to pay Carpet Right's prices for crappy quality underlay or cheap gripper.

I've found some helpful and directly relevant information (mostly elsewhere, as it happens), and I will be saving about £350, based on Carpet Right's estimate. I'll have much better underlay too, so I'll be buying slightly better carpet, and so the supplier will make a slightly bigger profit on a straightforward job.

I've spent well over £50k in the last six months on my refurbishment & extension project, and none of the tradesmen I have employed has supplied anything but their labour for an agreed fee. I have sourced and purchased everything, frequently finding that the tradesmen are perfectly happy to recommend suppliers and agree a materials list before they start work.

Job done.
 
I'm not the devil incarnate, I just don't want to pay Carpet Right's prices for crappy quality underlay or cheap gripper.

I've found some helpful and directly relevant information (mostly elsewhere, as it happens), and I will be saving about £350, based on Carpet Right's estimate. I'll have much better underlay too, so I'll be buying slightly better carpet, and so the supplier will make a slightly bigger profit on a straightforward job.

I've spent well over £50k in the last six months on my refurbishment & extension project, and none of the tradesmen I have employed has supplied anything but their labour for an agreed fee. I have sourced and purchased everything, frequently finding that the tradesmen are perfectly happy to recommend suppliers and agree a materials list before they start work.

Job done.

I doubt any non internet based business makes much of a profit these days...
In years gone by profits were "nice!"
these days actually making a profit means you are doing well!
dozens of retailers are no more
carpet right is propped up by lord harris
By the way a developer can build a 5 bed detached for less than £50k so don't tell us how wonderfull your tradesman are.............
 
I doubt any non internet based business makes much of a profit these days...
In years gone by profits were "nice!"
these days actually making a profit means you are doing well!
dozens of retailers are no more
carpet right is propped up by lord harris
By the way a developer can build a 5 bed detached for less than £50k so don't tell us how wonderfull your tradesman are.............

Did I say anything about wonderful tradesmen? As for the rest, if you had a point, I missed it, sadly.
 
It's not the customer's fault your business has become less viable.
 
I doubt any non internet based business makes much of a profit these days...
In years gone by profits were "nice!"
these days actually making a profit means you are doing well!
dozens of retailers are no more
carpet right is propped up by lord harris
By the way a developer can build a 5 bed detached for less than £50k so don't tell us how wonderfull your tradesman are.............

Did I say anything about wonderful tradesmen? As for the rest, if you had a point, I missed it, sadly.

What exactly are you expecting on this thread???????????

Yes this site is titled "DIYnot" but sensible advice comes from expert tradesmen who take "time-out" from working to answer posters queries....

unfortunately these days more and more posters like you seem to think they know best..............

I couldn't really care less - we have "advised" you don't accept our "advise"

...................carry on (I don't give a f**k)
 

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