Price check on window painting quote

[d000hg]

We have 14 wooden Victorian sash windows, 2 of them large 3 section bays. They're sorely in need of painting.
I got a quote of £1400 which seems a lot but then it's a lot of windows. I have no idea how much work it is or even how much paint it might take.

It's getting late in the season to be getting more quotes for this year so just wanted a second opinion - does it seem reasonable?

This is for exterior painting btw

 

[sparkwright]

Sounds a very good price.

Check what kind of preparation she will be doing, such as sanding all over, filling holes, cutting out rotten wood, and how many coats etc.

Almost too cheap really, has he left a specification on what he intends to do?

 

[d000hg]

No not really. I think he estimated it at a week's work give or take. Which puts the day rate at 200-275 depending on materials. Here in the North East that's actually not particularly cheap for an independent tradesman.

They came recommended so I think it seems reasonable.
Thanks.

 

[opps]

The price is meaningless without knowing the state of the windows and which products are going to be used. Does the price include materials and scaffolding? What will the quality of finish be like. How tidy will the decorators be?

My next exterior job is a double fronted house in Ealing. I have provisionally estimated £6000. There will already be scaffolding. The windows are brand new sliding sashes that don't need painting.

I suggested that the customer gets other quotes but explained that I would be grinding back the paint from the masonry windows surrounds and back filling them, additionally, rather than simply using cheap 2 pack styrene resin filler to repair
the bargeboards etc, I would be using expensive epoxy resin fillers to splice in new timber.

 

[d000hg]

@opps fair enough. Thanks for the insight.

 

[opps]

@opps fair enough. Thanks for the insight.

I cannot see how 14 sliding sash windows can be painted to a reasonable standard in a week. That is less than half a day per window.

Off the top of my head- assuming there is no significant wood rot and the windows are victorian (ie better quality pine) and that the parting beads do not have brushes, I would guestimate 1.5 to 2 days per window. That includes initial sanding, filling as required, sanding of the filler, spot priming, "caulking", 2 undercoats and two coats of gloss. Materials? Assuming Dulux Trade Weathershield- £20 for the primer, £45 for 2.5L of undercoat, £45 for the gloss, £40-50 for other materials and sundries. Total= about £160.

If your decorator doesn't need to sand through any of the paint then one coat of undercoat will/may suffice. I tend to use two coats of oil based gloss, primarily because I prefer the way it looks and hope that it increases longevity.

I don't want to malign the fellow and am mindful of the fact that I haven't seen the job, but I am concerned that the time allotted might meant that he simply plans to rub a bit of sandpaper over the existing finish and then apply one undercoat and one gloss.

Although he has been recommended, I would suggest that it might be prudent to look at an exterior that he painted a couple of years ago.

Sorry, I am not trying to coerce you into paying more than you need to, I just don't want to see a fellow forum member having to pay to have work redone a couple of years later.

In conclusion, I haven't seen the job so I can only limited advice.

Best of luck.

 

[Notch7]

I cannot see how 14 sliding sash windows can be painted to a reasonable standard in a week.

they must be fiddly buggers to paint...

 

[d000hg]

It does seem a big job but then I've seen how fast a good plasterer is, and wondered if good painters are equally speedy?

There's a lot of flaky paint - they seemingly haven't been done for quite a few years - but equally there's goodness knows what thickness of paint underneath.
I hadn't realised you'd reapply undercoat on older paint, good to know next time I come to do some painting myself!

Realistically there's not much painting time left and the wood needs to be protected before another winter. If he's cheap but longevity isn't as good I'll just have to revisit it, we do expect to do larger work on the windows in the next year or two.

Out of interest, how often SHOULD this need redoing if it's done well?

 

[Bosswhite]

Sash Windows are a "B*gger" to paint properly,
do they all slide open, what about sash cordings are they worn and need replacing . once the windows are painted the paint dries the windows tend to stick so have to be eased off
With that amount of sash windows there is no way they can be painted properly in a week , possible removal of window frame beading in order to plane down window/beading to ease the opening and closing of the windows.
Again to work on the windows properly first floor would need some sort of Tower Scaffold working off a ladder for Sash Windows is difficult .
If done properly about a two week job then the price would be reasonable . Again it depends on weather get halfway through painting a window and get "rained off" thats a day wasted.

 

[opps]

they must be fiddly buggers to paint...

I normally lower the outer (read:top) sash, raise the inner (read: lower) sash, paint the top 5 or 6 inches of the inner sash and then lower it and raise the outer sash to get to the rest of the inner sash. Then paint the underside of the inner sash (lifting it yet again). The outer sash is more straight forward and only needs to come down by a couple of inches so that you can get to all of it.

In an ideal world I don't even consider painting the channel that the outer sash sits in until the top and bottom sashes are completely finished. Unless the sashes have been refurbished and easy glides have been fitted you are likely to find that the new paint in the channels will get scuffed as the top/outer sash goes up and down.

Most of my exterior work involves sliding sash windows. I absolutely hate painting victorian windows that have been refurbed and have brush piles added to the parting and staff beads. It is a mare to cut the paint in without the risk of getting it on to the brushes. I would estimate that the brush piles add at least 15% to the length of the job. That said, the brush piles are more of an issue on the inside of the property than outside.

 

[opps]

It does seem a big job but then I've seen how fast a good plasterer is, and wondered if good painters are equally speedy?

They are very different trades. A plasterer can, for example, apply 2 inches of bonding over an area and then skim over it on the same day. A decorator can fill a 2 inch hole with 2 pack filler, sand it and then apply paint over it but he will need to wait longer for the paint to cure before he can apply another coat.

There's a lot of flaky paint - they seemingly haven't been done for quite a few years - but equally there's goodness knows what thickness of paint underneath.

The options are

1. Sand back the paint and feather it out. Perfectly do-able if there aren't loads of old coats of paint. If there are lots of coats you need to spend a long time sanding.

2. Use filler rather than feathering the paint. Technically, that might be ok but there is a big risk of the filler delaminating from the timber as it expands/contracts.

3. You can burn the paint off but IMO if the bulk of the paint is sound and has been there for the last 100 years, let it be.

I hadn't realised you'd reapply undercoat on older paint, good to know next time I come to do some painting myself!

You don't always have to use undercoat. If you had eggshell on your skirting boards and decided to repaint them, it would be fine to lightly sand them and then apply eggshell over the top. Be advised that simply applying undercoat is no substitute for sanding between coats though.

Out of interest, how often SHOULD this need redoing if it's done well?

Good question. I hope that my work will last at least 7 years (and preferably much longer). Commercially rented properties work on a 5 year expectation (by that I mean that they expect it to be so bad by that stage that it potentially affects the rentable value of the property- hence the re-dec). That said, even when I use epoxy resin filler rather than the significantly cheaper 2 pack fillers, I cannot guarantee that there will not be cracks where the rails and styles meet.

 

[Bosswhite]

I would advise against burning off paintwork of sash windows, (as an ex Firefighter) the side panels contain the sash cording and weights , over the years many spiders make their homes in the panels it gets filled with dust and cobwebs, a spark from a hot air stripper can smoulder for hours without the operator realising

 

[opps]

I would advise against burning off paintwork of sash windows, (as an ex Firefighter) the side panels contain the sash cording and weights , over the years many spiders make their homes in the panels it gets filled with dust and cobwebs, a spark from a hot air stripper can smoulder for hours without the operator realising

Good point, that said, I often get seconded to help a friend who restores sliding sash windows. I have yet to find significant spiders webs on the weights but yes, they are often very dusty.