Providing EICR to clients

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I'm contemplating offering an EICR service to clients when I'm working on their properties. I offer dry lining and plastering services and I've extensive understanding of electrical circuits in a domestic setting. There is a wall of paperwork to saddle when it comes to working on electrical installations. However, an EICR does not require accreditation. My question then becomes : what electrical certification would get me to the stage where I can offer EICRs whilst avoiding the hefty accreditation that is required to practice as a qualified electrician ?

Would City & Guilds 2391 Inspection and Testing be sufficient ?
 
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what electrical certification would get me to the stage where I can offer EICRs whilst avoiding the hefty accreditation that is required to practice as a qualified electrician ?
Years of experience and knowledge.

This is, of course, lacking in most who offer the 'service' and no one in authority cares, so - feel free.
 
I appreciate your sentiments EFL. You have been serving this community for a long time and you are a source of good knowledge. I am in a situation where I am needing to take on more work and offer a wider range of services in order to keep the money coming in. I am not in that bad a situation compared to some either.
 
Absolutely anyone is allowed to do EICRs but, as I said, it should only be people with extensive experience and knowledge of electrical installations and with all the best will in the world that is not you is it, HawkEye?

I never did EICRs because I didn't want the responsibility should I miss something.
 
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Absolutely anyone is allowed to do EICRs but, as I said, it should only be people with extensive experience and knowledge of electrical installations and with all the best will in the world that is not you is it, HawkEye? I never did EICRs because I didn't want the responsibility should I miss something.
I have to say that I was about to write something very similar to that.

As I often say, I think it pretty ridiculous that there is no regulation (or 'oversight') of who can (and cannot) do EICRs, probably even more so than the lack of regulation of who is allowed to do ('paid') electrical work.

In keeping with what you imply, if, for some reason, I was 'forced' to employ the services of a relatively inexperienced electrician, I would probably be far less uncomfortable having them actually 'doing electrical work" than I would if they were undertaking an EICR.

Kind Regards, John
 
As I often say, I think it pretty ridiculous that there is no regulation (or 'oversight') of who can (and cannot) do EICRs, probably even more so than the lack of regulation of who is allowed to do ('paid') electrical work.
It is strange when one thinks of all the regulations of other things.

In keeping with what you imply, if, for some reason, I was 'forced' to employ the services of a relatively inexperienced electrician, I would probably be far less uncomfortable having them actually 'doing electrical work" than I would if they were undertaking an EICR.
I suppose that is logical and I don't really know what the answer is.

Are you ever forced to employ the services of a relatively inexperienced electrician?
Now, though, landlords are forced to employ the services of a relatively inexperienced electrician to carry out their Safety Reports.

There are so many safety devices in electrical installations with so few deaths that it doesn't seem to really matter; just legislation for legislation's sake.
 
It is strange when one thinks of all the regulations of other things.
Quite so. MOTs are often mentioned as analogous, but there are many other examples.
I suppose that is logical and I don't really know what the answer is. Are you ever forced to employ the services of a relatively inexperienced electrician?
Of course not. I was merely using that hypothetical illustration of the fact that I am probably more concerned about the 'competence' (in the widest sense, including experience) of someone undertaking an EICR than of someone doing 'actual electrical work'.
There are so many safety devices in electrical installations with so few deaths that it doesn't seem to really matter; just legislation for legislation's sake.
As I often observe, If one views the situation impassionately, it's quite difficult to even justify (the 'requirement for') most of those 'safety devices' on the basis of the number of deaths (and serious injuries). It could be said to be 'bad enough' in relation to RCDs, before one starts thinking about the newer-fangled devices!

To some extent, "legislation fopr legislation's sake" probably reflects (at least the perceived) 'wishes of the population', who are not always capable of taking an 'impassionate' view of big pictures.

Kind Regards, John
 
The reason 2391 is useless on it's own is contained in the course descriptions.
Of the three versions available, 51 would be for EICRs, and as that requires the individual has already done the 50, it's effectively the 52 which is both combined.

2391.png

Intended for experienced electricians.
 
and from what I understand now, the written part of the paper has now been replaced by a computer based multiple choice test
 
Yes that's true now. I took my 2391 in 2007 and the exam was written with no book either!
 
The original draft for EICR was with 10 years experience in the trade, that was dropped, so it seems the only requirement is
“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;
if I read that be the letter of the law, then the bit "remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards" is the bit which raises questions, if your not a scheme member can you do remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards. Since one can go down the LABC route and pay the in Wales £100 plus vat fee, then yes I can do one, even if I would not want to go down that route, I know the LABC will accept my signature on an installation certificate as I have done it once, so I could do an EICR.

But it does raise other questions, the
“electrical installation” has the meaning given in regulation 2(1) of the Building Regulations 2010(2);
leads to
“electrical installation” means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter;
that then raises questions, as it is not the same definition used in the regulations, the consideration is there are two areas, one the installation, and two the in service electrical equipment.

So we have the EICR and the testing and inspecting of in service electrical equipment (PAT testing) but the landlord laws seem so have grouped some of the PAT testing in with the EICR.

So we have items like boilers to consider, with the IET these would come under in service electrical equipment but the government laws puts them under the EICR, so where there is gas on the premises one would need to be "gas safe" to do the full EICR.

This would mean most electricians will fall foul of the "remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards" as they should not be removing any covers which need "gas safe" status, however in my mothers house (I use oil) I saw no sticker to say this cover must only be removed by "gas safe" registered personal, there seemed to be no gas seal so not reason why I should not remove the cover.

Be it "gas safe" or "high voltage" we would all hope there is some label, I know I had reservations in a power station about removing covers, where there were no labels to say which boxes were low voltage and which exceeded low voltage, (1000 volt AC) but most installations that is not an issue. I personally would remove any cover without a "gas safe" or "corgi" label. I know very well that plumbers are not in general good electricians. So would want to check the green/yellow wires not used for line. This seems common with wiring to class II thermostats on hot water cylinders. Also missing grommets etc.

The more than 10 years in the trade allows one to work out likely problems, be it lighting with no earths, or poor central heating installations, one gets a feel of what to expect, for example if I was asked to do an EICR where I work, I would be looking at 16 amp sockets designed to supply caravans and similar items, I know should be TN-S or TT and that TN-C-S is not permitted. But this is because I have had 50 years plus in the trade, would a 20 year old look for that?

There has been one court case, in Pembrokeshire, but unaware of any others, where the inspector did not do his job. A buyer report often has a section about the electrics, clearly done but a surveyor, who one would thing has little knowledge of electrical systems, but is clearly an EICR, so can't see any reason why anyone with a C&G 2391 should not do a report.
 
.... if your not a scheme member can you do remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards.
Of course one can. Anyone with the relevant knowledge and skills can "do remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards", and that remains the case even if they have no 'paper qualifications'.

Whether or not one pays money to a trade organisation does not alter that.

Kind Regards, John
 
Of course one can. Anyone with the relevant knowledge and skills can "do remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards", and that remains the case even if they have no 'paper qualifications'.

Whether or not one pays money to a trade organisation does not alter that.

Kind Regards, John
I do see your point, however the LABC is responsible for site safety, so must have the option to say NO your not skilled enough to do that work. So the question is has the electrician got
relevant knowledge and skills
I would say as a result there is a question, the LABC would not allow my son to do work on my parents house, he only had the C&G 2391 and C&G 2382 I think that was the exam required at the time, but would allow me as I had a degree, anyone who has done a degree will realise how daft that was, but one needs to satisfy the LABC requirements. Even if they seem daft.
 
This would mean most electricians will fall foul of the "remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards" as they should not be removing any covers which need "gas safe" status, however in my mothers house (I use oil) I saw no sticker to say this cover must only be removed by "gas safe" registered personal, there seemed to be no gas seal so not reason why I should not remove the cover.
There is a difference between the gas appliances where the cover forms part of the combustion chamber/room sealing i.e. an integral casing and that of a decorative casing.

From the GSR FAQs...
Screenshot_20230902-225140_Adobe Acrobat.jpg


This is often a bone of contention when we offer advice to DIY'ers on the Plumbing and C/H forum - many manufacturers hide their external control terminal blocks behind a room sealed cover.
We are obliged to warn a DIY'er that if they remove the cover to fit a new thermostat, they then have to have their boiler checked for gas safety afterwards, by a member of the GSR.

Which, I suppose in practical terms, means that an inspection by an electrician will end at the FCU, with a basic visual inspection of the flex and boiler. We may have to assume that the RGI who installed (or inspects) the boiler has competency for their part of the electrical installation.
 
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