PRV termination / GSIUR

[BoyElectric]

My one-year old Vaillant boiler (installed Sep-2008) has just had its first annual service and the NPower engineer issued a Gas Installation Warning Notice. Description of fault was "Pressure relief pipe not terminated to regulations" and it was classified "At risk". He attached a danger sticker to the boiler stating it should not be used and ticked the box on the warning notice to say the appliance had been turned off . . . but he left the boiler turned on and fully operational.

I have double-checked the MI's and the PRV is terminated in accordance with these, although they are slightly vague and open to interpretation. There was no problem far as the installer was concerned.

3 questions:

1. Can he issue a warning notice and turn off my boiler for this "fault"?
2. Do the MI's or the GSIUR take precedence here? (Where can I find the GSIUR online so I can read the relevant regulation/s for myself?)
3. Can I ignore this notice if I can determine that it is invalid.

Thanks.

 

[billy bob]

How is the safety discharge terminated

 

[BoyElectric]

I didn't really want to start a discussion about where and how the PRV terminates.

MI's state:
"The discharge pipework should be as short as possible and installed with a continuous fall away from the boiler. The pipe should terminate in a position which ensures that any discharge of water or steam from the valve cannot create a hazard to persons in or around the premises, or cause damage to any electrical components or external wiring, and the point of discharge should be clearly visible."

The boiler is in the garage in a VERY LOW/ZERO traffic area.The PRV outflow pipe falls from the boiler vertically to just above the garage floor with the pipe opening pointing to the floor. The point of discharge is visible and isn't near electrical components or wiring.

The installation seemingly conforms to the MI's and the installer assured me it was fine. I have also seen other Vaillant boilers with the PRV terminated in this way. The NPower engineer says it MUST be terminated OUTSIDE, but to do so would position the discharge in a higher traffic area and therefore pose a greater hazard.

So I now have a situation where one Gas Safe registered engineer says it's fine and another says it's at risk. Who's opinion do I side with and who adjudicates? I would like to read the relevant regulation for myself so I can make an informed judgement as to who is correct.

I would have got the installer to do the service but he was booked up for a month so I got NPower because the price was good and I got a discount as an exisiting customer. The installer would not have flagged the PRV termination as a problem

 

[kevplumb]

mi's override the gsiur

or so ive always been taught

GSIUR drill down to free download

 

[davebgas]

Should terminate outside the fabric of the building. PRV terminations are very open to interpretation but general rule is outside and safely terminated.
Small small chance of someone being in garage and it goes filling garage with steam, water as slip hazard etc.
You know what the UK is like now for H&S

the lad is covering himself

 

[kirkgas]

in my opinion it isnt fitted as per MI as any discharge is going to hit the floor and flood the garage, (possibly causing another problem) but it is not AR as this is a gas issue, it should be rerouted outside, obviusly the installer has taken the easy route, your service engineer should have discussed this with you and left the boiler fully operational (UNLESS HE HAS SEEN SOMETHING IN THE GARAGE THAT YOU HAVEN'T TOLD US ABOUT THAT COULD BE A PROB IF THE DISCHARGE WATER HITS IT) so i would think very carefully before you chose to disregard it, you do not need to see the gas regs, you could check with the manufacturer who i'm sure will agree with me that they would like to see the discharge pipe outside, it is all very well for you to say minimal traffic, but if one person enters the garage to try to trace the rumbling noise and is standing in front off the pipe just as it discharges they could get seriuosly burned by the near boiling water

 

[BoyElectric]

in my opinion it isnt fitted as per MI as any discharge is going to hit the floor and flood the garage, (possibly causing another problem) but it is not AR as this is a gas issue, it should be rerouted outside, obviusly the installer has taken the easy route, your service engineer should have discussed this with you and left the boiler fully operational (UNLESS HE HAS SEEN SOMETHING IN THE GARAGE THAT YOU HAVEN'T TOLD US ABOUT THAT COULD BE A PROB IF THE DISCHARGE WATER HITS IT) so i would think very carefully before you chose to disregard it, you do not need to see the gas regs, you could check with the manufacturer who i'm sure will agree with me that they would like to see the discharge pipe outside, it is all very well for you to say minimal traffic, but if one person enters the garage to try to trace the rumbling noise and is standing in front off the pipe just as it discharges they could get seriuosly burned by the near boiling water

Thanks kirk.

There is nothing in the garage I haven't told you about. It appears you're telling me that an AR notice should not have been issued for this problem, however I'm not going to disregard the notice. I've just downloaded the GSIUR and I'm also going to phone Vaillant for further guidance.

 

[billy bob]

But as you rightly point out kirkgas, the PRV has nothing to do with Gas Safety, so ID, AR and NCS do not apply, so really he should not of labeled your boiler, nor notified that the boier was turned off, (although as you said he did not actually turn it off).
It would be a good idea and safer to take the dicharge to outside

 

[BoyElectric]

But as you rightly point out kirkgas, the PRV has nothing to do with Gas Safety, so ID, AR and NCS do not apply, so really he should not of labeled your boiler, nor notified that the boier was turned off, (although as you said he did not actually turn it off).
It would be a good idea and safer to take the dicharge to outside

OK, so at least I'm not breaking the law by removing the sticker and continuing to use the boiler.

One more question - what happens to the warning notice? Is this sent to Gas Safe? Are the PRV Termination Police going to come round and turn my house into an igloo until I comply?

I'm waiting for a reply from Vailliant regarding the siting of the PRV termination. It's not a huge job to put this to the outside but I'm not going to do it unless it's really necessary.

Thanks

 

[BingoBongo]

basically they are just covering there asss incase something happens and you say "well you serviced it every year and never told me"

no more will be done its just advisory to get it changed

bg do the same thing with regards to prv`s

i would be more worried if it was poking out the wall at head height (not returned)

 

[billy bob]

But as you rightly point out kirkgas, the PRV has nothing to do with Gas Safety, so ID, AR and NCS do not apply, so really he should not of labeled your boiler, nor notified that the boier was turned off, (although as you said he did not actually turn it off).
It would be a good idea and safer to take the dicharge to outside

OK, so at least I'm not breaking the law by removing the sticker and continuing to use the boiler.

One more question - what happens to the warning notice? Is this sent to Gas Safe? Are the PRV Termination Police going to come round and turn my house into an igloo until I comply?

I'm waiting for a reply from Vailliant regarding the siting of the PRV termination. It's not a huge job to put this to then outside but I'm not going to do it unless it's really necessary.

Thanks

As BingoBongo says, nothing more will happen, your boiler is perfectly safe to use, but is it that awkward to drill a hole in the garage wall to outside and run the safety discharge to it, as has been said it is a r s e covering, unfortunately we have to these days, but it is annoying when the ID, AR and NCS are used outside of what they cover

 

[kevplumb]

dunno about anybody else but

i was told by a dog warden
just to put it on the sheet and get cust to sign

 

[CMairiD]

I've seen the dog wardens AR for an incorrectly terminated high level discharge (cut flush to the building).

 

[billy bob]

I've seen the dog wardens AR for an incorrectly terminated high level discharge (cut flush to the building).

That was CORGI, they wanted to stick their nose into everything, GSR on the other hand are only interested in gas and rightly so.

 

[bengasman]

3 questions:
1. Can he issue a warning notice and turn off my boiler for this "fault"?

Not for this fault as it is not At Risk.

2. Do the MI's or the GSIUR take precedence here? (Where can I find the GSIUR online so I can read the relevant regulation/s for myself?)

M.I.s always take precedence.
Don't bother with checking the GSIUR, it is technical legalese.

3. Can I ignore this notice if I can determine that it is invalid.

Thanks.

yes, as it is not dangerous.