Question about support when creating an opening of 5.4m

[AlphaTeamBuilder]

This is a little unusual for me and just wanted to hear out a few other more experienced builders than myself before attempting this.

I've got a 5.4m opening to create in a 9" brick wall. Haven't chipped off the render yet to see if the mortar is decent or not so cant tell you that yet.

Here's a pic

Untitled

• AlphaTeamBuilder
• 23 Jan 2014
• 1

The red rectangle is where the beam must go. The grey area edged in orange is a section of brickwork I COULD remove as there will be a second storey extension going here. Ideally I don't want to take it out until I need to for weathering reasons etc.

The issues I can see are that there's no triangle of brickwork to support, just a whole section of wall and roof. Furthermore, I want to fit the beam at floor joist level (beam runs parallel to joists so can sit next to the last one). Lastly, this beam is going to weigh an absolute ton meaning man handling it into position will need a team of burly blokes and fairly decent access. Is there any type of equipment that's recommended to lift the beam?

I was planning on positioning Acros either side at 900 centres and needling the wall above. I've got a bunch of Strongboy props but thought that perhaps these wouldn't be man enough for this particular task.

Any thoughts on best approach would be much appreciated.

 

[Blagard]

<snipped>
I've got a 5.4m opening to create in a 9" brick wall.

The issues I can see are that there's no triangle of brickwork to support, just a whole section of wall and roof. Furthermore, I want to fit the beam at floor joist level (beam runs parallel to joists so can sit next to the last one). Lastly, this beam is going to weigh an absolute ton meaning man handling it into position will need a team of burly blokes and fairly decent access. Is there any type of equipment that's recommended to lift the beam?

Any thoughts on best approach would be much appreciated.

I am sure if you have done any serious building you know that it is not at all realistic to agree or otherwise with your proposals without seeing the actual job and understanding the structure as a whole.

For such a large opening You should ask the SE to tell you what size steel to use (as approved by BC) and to give a sequence of operations to install it safely.

As for lifting equipment, use a mobile crane! It will get the beam straight off the back of the wagon very close to where you want it before using the temporary supports you will require for final positioning.

A classic case of the need for a method statement.

 

[AlphaTeamBuilder]

Most of the jobs I take on a small-ish jobs. In the past when I've had larger work come in Ive subbed it out as my workforce was only small. Now that we are a bit bigger I wanted to take on a bit more for myself.

All the beams I've ever put in have either been during a new build state or not quite as big as this one with an unusual loading to support above it. I know that a job is always more complicated than what a drawing usually shows but I tried to describe as much of it as possible.

The SE is busy with beam sizing calculations at the moment (should get them back tomorrow) and when they come through they'll have connection details etc. Not so sure about a method statement or sequence of operations being included. Surely that's for the builder to decide on best course of action, hence why I was asking for some guidance on what would be easiest from more experienced builders that deal with sort of stuff day in day out.

As for access and lifting a mobile crane won't work in this situation as the beam is to be installed within the building so no access from above. I was looking at those Genie lifts as they can lift a fair bit of weight from below but they are tad bulky and will probably get in the way of the props. Has anyone used something else that they could recommend?

 

[Blagard]

The SE is busy with beam sizing calculations at the moment (should get them back tomorrow) and when they come through they'll have connection details etc. Not so sure about a method statement or sequence of operations being included. Surely that's for the builder to decide on best course of action, hence why I was asking for some guidance on what would be easiest from more experienced builders that deal with sort of stuff day in day out.

As for access and lifting a mobile crane won't work in this situation as the beam is to be installed within the building so no access from above. I was looking at those Genie lifts as they can lift a fair bit of weight from below but they are tad bulky and will probably get in the way of the props. Has anyone used something else that they could recommend?

The experienced builder can put a method statement together, but so can the experienced SE. especially with regard to maintaining stability of the building while the opening is created and the beam put into place.

The use of scaffolding and props to support the beam as you move it into position is something to consider especially if you are able to slot the beam in through a temporary hole close to where you need it. Once in, maybe adjacent to the final location use levers to inch it into position.

You really need to show plan and elevation of where the beam goes and add information such as working space available. Then maybe the experienced builders can give you a few tips. Wait until you have the weight and dimensions of the beam before posting back.

 

[tony1851]

The SE would probably specify something like a 203x203x52 or 60; anything significantly bigger and he's covering himself at the client's expense and your labour.
You can ask that the beam be spliced in two sections to make lifting much easier, though the drilling and plates/bolts will be an extra cost.

 

[AlphaTeamBuilder]

I did ask him to specify a couple of parallel flanges that could be bolted together once in to aid maneuvering. There will be another point load on this beam from another beam that will support a 1st floor wall. Bascially building up from that little pitched roof section at some point this year. But you wasnt to know that.

Once I've got my calcs I will post back with some different elevations etc so it'll become clearer.

 

[tony1851]

Would be interested to know what he specifies.

 

[AlphaTeamBuilder]

Right the SE had specified a 203 UC 71 with my point load beams bolted to it. This leads me to my next question. On the drawings he has specified a 10mm thick mild steel end plate welded to one of the adjoining beams. It also says F.P.F.W + 4 No M16 bolts. What is F.P.F.W?

 

[tony1851]

Full Penetration Fillet Weld.
Considering the central point load, his beam spec. seems about right.
You also need to check the bolt grades with him - 4.6 or the higher-strength 8.8?

 

[AlphaTeamBuilder]

Bolt grades are the higher 8.8. Because of the loading on the beam and the walls not being too great, he's specified that the beam be supported by UC's at either end buried in the walls. I've also got to dig up and put new foundations in but I'm waiting on those drawings early next week. He hasn't specified how the beam is connected to the columns though so I've asked for a detail of that.

Beam will weigh around 380kg so how would one go about manoeuvring this beast into place? Normally a bit of manpower would be enough with smaller beams but I don't want my guys lifting this over their heads. There's no where to fit a winch or drop a crane cable in so it needs to be lifted up from below. As i will be able to go straight up and not have to wiggle onto pad stones I could use a lifter but have not used kit like this before. Any suggestions?

 

[tony1851]

Because of the loading on the beam and the walls not being too great, he's specified that the beam be supported by UC's at either end buried in the walls. I've also got to dig up and put new foundations in but I'm waiting on those drawings early next week. He hasn't specified how the beam is connected to the columns though so I've asked for a detail of that.

Hmmm. Here's where it gets complicated. If the beam is supported on columns, you do need to get precise details of that connection from him. Too often SEs fob builders off on these details.

Also make sure he gives proper dimensions for the pad foundations under the columns, AND details how the columns are fixed to the pads.
If he doesn't give any of these details and instead expects you to sort it out, it will be your responsibility (not his) if it all goes south.

If the supporting return walls are a bit iffy, have you considered asking if they could be re-built in brickwork? Might be a bit cheaper/easier in the long run.

 

[catlad]

It sounds hard to believe you don't have the space for a beam lifter they are only 30" wide, I helped lift a large beam once with a scaffold tower split in two and positioned at both ends and we lifted the beam a bit at a time from either end until we were close enough to slide it into position.

 

[AlphaTeamBuilder]

Ahhhh a beam lifter, just did a google image search, like a giant trolley jack. Perfect. I was looking at Genie lifts but they are bulky and expensive to hire. 1 beam lifter at each end and we are laughing. Thanks for the suggestion.

Regarding the rebuilding of walls. One side is being rebuilt with new footings anyway. I had mentioned to the SE about rebuilding the other side but he seemed to think that by using columns fixed to the walls I could transfer the loading better and thus get away with a skinnier beam that could be concealed within the ceiling. The building is a 1930's build and I guess he wanted to be doubly sure that anything he specified wasn't going to cause bricks to crumble over time.

He is sorting out the pad footing details next week so assume these details will be included with that. I'm going to dig down next to the existing footings to investigate their current depth and integrity. Hopefully they are nice and deep and in good condition, might be able to drill rebar and pour next to them.