Question re payment plan for a doors, windows and warm roof rebuild on a garden room.

[fandyman]

Hi,

Just about to agree on a payment plan with a contractor to replace wooden windows, doors and install a Prefix Hybrid Warm Roof instead of polycarbonate and wood construction in my garden room (+ they will be installing FSG to the back of the house and I beam on the external leaf of the wall where the garden room meets the living area) and this is the payment plan they offered:

The initial deposit would be £7000.00 Deposit

Then there we would stage payment when fsg has been completed and frames and roof are on site of £10.000.00

Then when we have the the frames up and roof is being tiled we would ask for another stage payment of £5.0000.00

Then when all job is completed and your happy we will ask for final payment of £2.000.00

Is this reasonable you think?

 

[HERTS P&D]

How much were the other 2 quotes?

Andy

 

[fandyman]

Hey @HERTS P&D

The other quotes did not specify any detail as to payment plan but were around 20K, 25K and 30K (VAT exclusive).

No details of payment plan from other quotes as I have not requested them yet (this is the first payment plan I received).

I am less concerned about the pricing I suppose (I live by M25 south of London and the garden room area is 3.5m x 4.5m) than with staging the payments.

I am just trying to avoid leaving the last payment with such a small sum so that I am left with unfinished job, installers gone and no money to finish it off.

 

[fandyman]

Thinking about it shouldn't the stages be more like:

- deposit - 10%
- replace the FSG to the back of the house - 5%
- install I beam - 10%
- replace the old windows and french doors on the garden room - 20%
- build roof structure - 30%
- insulate and tile roof structure - 20%
- plaster and finish internally - 5%

Does it sound reasonable?

Let me know.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I wouldn't pay upfront for anything to strangers.

You should pay for progress after it's happened.

 

[fandyman]

Thanks @Ivor Windybottom.

Anyone else any views on my payment plan?
Does it sound fair?

 

[ETAF]

just a homeowner , had a few trades in , when i replaced the windows/doors - this was in stages - each time I paid a deposit of 25% and then the rest was on completion - but it was only ever at most a 2 day job
The tiled roof , soffits/facias gutter - insulation and also fitting a warm flat roof (3 weeks work) , I did pay in 2 stages but I negotiated a 50% payment at the end when all complete and satisfied. I did have over a 20 point snagging list, towards the end and more as the job progressed. But the guy was excellent and sent a few teams of 2 to get the work done

 

[ETAF]

Does it sound reasonable?

I would leave a % at the end once finished - otherwise from your % you have paid it all before complete
at least 15% i would have thought

although trades are very difficult to get these days, and more likely to dictate to you
I'm assuming these guys come highly recommended and you have seen previous work ????

I also insisted and made part of the payment system that they stayed on site all the time and worked - as many years ago i had people just come in the morning and not return for days .....
so most of the material had to be delivered , ready to fit and any delay would not get payment
BUT the trades i have had - all pretty much expect payment at end - But thats just for jobs around £1500 ish

 

[Deluks]

It does sound a lot up front. What's the cost of materials for the first stage?
Also, any reasonable sized reputable building firm would be able to get hold of materials on account with a merchant.

After all this work is done will you just have a just a posher garden room, or will it become open to the rest of the house? (an extension)

 

[fandyman]

@Deluks

I opened a trades account with Stevenswood and the rough cost of materials for the garden room was standing at about 10-12 k (flush casement windows + french doors and a warm roof although different type - SupaLite instead of Prefix).

After all this work we will keep the current space which is a nice garden room but as part of the works (another contractor) we will be closing it with external grade heritage doors to the living room.

We just do not want to lose this space as it offers very nice panoramic views (it is projecting in the middle of the garden) but are not prepared to build a proper extension as:
1) we do not need any more space downstairs
2) the extension won't be able to offer us 3 glazed walls which is what we are after with this refurbishment as that would have to include the SAP calcs (if no dividing doors put in) which will increase the spending even further (at the time we considered demolishing and building an extension we had a few early quotes with two solid walls and regular windows each side and bifold doors with gable roof at the projected end in the range of 60-70K).

We checked the foundations and dwarf wall and we find it same as the house foundations (450mm) so we believe it is sufficient to take on the load of a warm roof.

We have bought this house with refurbishing of the garden room in mind as otherwise we would just demolish the current garden room and install the external doors with some patio area in the place of former garden room.

 

[Deluks]

So you yourself have opened an account with the supplier and will be paying for the materials directly to them?
If this is the case then I don't see why the builder needs 7k up front. If they're only starting off by fitting new gutters and fascia.

The heritage doors and views sound very nice.

 

[fandyman]

No no - the builder won't agree for me to pay for the materials as that's not how anyone works in this country apparently (that's what I am being told).

I have opened the account a while back when I was considering my options (including building the roof with a help of a friend - but that option is off the table now).

I am ok to pay for materials but 17k before anything is started (the FSG to the back of the house which the company mentions for the 2nd 10k payment is really just a tiny fraction of that cost) on the main project is super steep to me if I am supposed to pay a total of 20k.

That's like 85% upfront which I am struggling to understand.

 

[Deluks]

I am also struggling to understand.
Consult with your builder for clarification, ask for a breakdown of each stage payment. Maybe renegotiate the amounts.
Some people can be hesitant to challenge pricing, it does feel like you are 'questioning the professional' somewhat.
But the conversation that ensues will give you a good idea on what kind of relationship you establish with your builder, which at the end of the day is more important than the nuts and bolts of it all.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Enquire with the others who have quoted, see what stage payments they want. It sounds like you have alarm bells ringing, I think you have a point.

I had a £17k re-roof. I only paid for the materials after they were sitting on the driveway on pallets. I only paid for labour at agreed stages after the work had been done. If at any point he'd cleared off and not returned then I could have paid someone else to finish and not been any worse off.

 

[fandyman]

I have not asked for detailed payment plans but most of the companies wanted at least 50% deposit so about 10K upfront.

I did not find any company that would accept 10-15% deposit and be paid more after subsequent stages are complete which makes me think it is common practice.

I've asked about 6 companies but they are all glazing companies and not proper builders (this conservatory/garden room area of the market is in reality a big grey area).