Radiator Size and Valve Query

[dilalio]

Ah right, so something like this?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-brass-compression-adapting-female-coupler-15mm-x-1-2-/76567

So would it look something like the following:

Straight female valve onto copper pipe > extension piece > onto 90 degree valve > extension piece > onto TRV.

Almost...

Coupler straight onto bent female iron (lose nut and olive from bent iron).
Then from bent iron use the extension piece straight into the rad valve.
"if" the coupler, upstream of bent iron, gives you the projection you need from the wall!

 

[gjw123]

Almost...

Coupler straight onto bent female iron (lose nut and olive from bent iron).
Then from bent iron use the extension piece straight into the rad valve.
"if" the coupler, upstream of bent iron, gives you the projection you need from the wall!

Okay thanks. I have drawn a diagram and put the connection ends together how I'm thinking you're saying they should go - is this right?

Thanks!

 

[Madrab]

This is the one I was talking about - 1800 X 600 double. As above, the valves are on the bottom and don't line up with the current copper pipes, so I'm looking for a solution to get some angles to make it fit!

You need to be careful, that 3.1Kw is @ a Delta of T65. I don't think you'd be running your system @ that. Normal Kw rated output at the the moment is @ a delta of T50 and even that is on the higher side these days. New systems and now expected to be running @ ~50deg, the Delta is then T30

In short - a Delta T50, presumes that @ an ambient room temp of 20deg then the system temp into that rad would need to be ~70deg to reach the radiators stated output @ that system temp, the difference in the temps is the Delta.

To obtain the 3.1Kw output on that rad requires a Delta @ T65, with the same ambient temp of 20Deg then the system would need to be running @ ~ 85deg. Not what the system would be set to I don't think.

 

[dilalio]

Okay thanks. I have drawn a diagram and put the connection ends together how I'm thinking you're saying they should go - is this right?

Thanks!

Nope.

Like this...

But with the irons in chrome not brass.

 

[gjw123]

You need to be careful, that 3.1Kw is @ a Delta of T65. I don't think you'd be running your system @ that. Normal Kw rated output at the the moment is @ a delta of T50 and even that is on the higher side these days. New systems and now expected to be running @ ~50deg, the Delta is then T30

In short - a Delta T50, presumes that @ an ambient room temp of 20deg then the system temp into that rad would need to be ~70deg to reach the radiators stated output @ that system temp, the difference in the temps is the Delta.

To obtain the 3.1Kw output on that rad requires a Delta @ T65, with the same ambient temp of 20Deg then the system would need to be running @ ~ 85deg. Not what the system would be set to I don't think.

Ahh okay, fair enough, thanks for the explanation. In any sense, I'm guessing that this radiator would still be better at heating the room than the four column one I initially put?

Is it a particularly expensive job to get a new radiator installed into the room? This is the only one in there, hence wanting to get the biggest and most efficient one possible.

Also, above where the radiator sits there's a beam. I know you spoke about how convector radiators work - this may be a stupid question, but if the heat is travelling up and out the radiator, would this beam disrupt it's travel out into the rest of the room? I've attached a picture.

 

[gjw123]

Nope.

Like this...

View attachment 360225View attachment 360226

But with the irons in chrome not brass.

Amazing, thanks for doing this! As a failsafe before I consider now ordering this radiator... if the two couplers together make it come out too far, is there anything to be done here?

Also, does the straight coupler on the pipe have to go all the way in, or is there some flexibility on this?

Thanks!

 

[Madrab]

Ahh okay, fair enough, thanks for the explanation. In any sense, I'm guessing that this radiator would still be better at heating the room than the four column one I initially put?

Can't really say given we're not on site and don't really know the layout of the room. I would certainly think it would be more effective at getting it's heat into the room yes but given it's under the heat loss requirement for the room it would be hard to be sure as to how much warmer it would get, trying to compare one to the other, if that makes sense.

 

[dilalio]

Amazing, thanks for doing this! As a failsafe before I consider now ordering this radiator... if the two couplers together make it come out too far, is there anything to be done here?

Also, does the straight coupler on the pipe have to go all the way in, or is there some flexibility on this?

Thanks!

Cut the copper out the wall accordingly!
Feck me... You want me to do it for you?

 

[gjw123]

Cut the copper out the wall accordingly!
Feck me... You want me to do it for you?

Thanks, it's almost like I could've worked that out myself...

 

[gjw123]

Can't really say given we're not on site and don't really know the layout of the room. I would certainly think it would be more effective at getting it's heat into the room yes but given it's under the heat loss requirement for the room it would be hard to be sure as to how much warmer it would get, trying to compare one to the other, if that makes sense.

Yep, fair enough! I've attached an image of the layout of the room in any sense and where the radiator is!

In your experience, would the beam running above where the radiator is affect the convector type circulation of the heat around the room?

 

[Madrab]

Oh my - well given the size of that and the actual open space - a column will struggle to heat that space unless it was waaaaay oversized. The convecting rad will certainly be more effective at warming the space, how warm it will get is not easy to say, given it's around 30% undersized.

You say there isn't anywhere else to put another rad, I take it all that wall real estate is taken up? I would even have considered UFH for that size of space.

 

[gjw123]

Oh my - well given the size of that and the actual open space - a column will struggle to heat that space unless it was waaaaay oversized. The convecting rad will certainly be more effective at warming the space, how warm it will get is not easy to say, given it's around 30% undersized.

You say there isn't anywhere else to put another rad, I take it all that wall real estate is taken up? I would even have considered UFH for that size of space.

There's wall space available, however, I was just trying to keep the costs down as much as possible, so was going to just to use the original pipework already in place, if possible.

I'm not sure if there is copper pipe that runs around the rest of the living room / kitchen. The only place I can see there is definitely some is on the wall is just past the entrance hall. I guess I could use some tee compression fittings and install one there too? I've attached some pictures (yellow arrow is pipe area, red is column heater already there). There's a radiator just a bit further along in the entrance hall, the other side of the door.

Also, having looked at electric convector heaters, how is it that one considerably smaller than the one I am looking can reach 3KW of heat?

 

[Madrab]

Also, having looked at electric convector heaters, how is it that one considerably smaller than the one I am looking can reach 3KW of heat?

Because it's elements can deliver that amount of heat quite easily and are 100% efficient

I was just trying to keep the costs down as much as possible

Yeah, I think we can all understand that.

It all comes down to heating that space and making sure the boiler doesn't have to keep running all the time but the room doesn't ever get up to temp.

 

[dilalio]

Also, having looked at electric convector heaters, how is it that one considerably smaller than the one I am looking can reach 3KW of heat?

Don't forget they're more expensive to run!