Radiators either red hot or off, not warm

[timmah1980]

Not long been in our first house and trying to get our heads around how the central heating system works, and how best to set-up the radiators.

I've read certain articles/posts on these forums and found them quite helpful, but couldn't see any for this particular problem.

All our radiators seem to work ok, but the problem is that when they're on, they're red hot. Therefore the house gets too hot, and we have to turn the heating off completely. I'd like to know how to set-up a radiator so that it's just warm, rather than either red hot or completely off.

The control panel we've got look like the one in this PDF:

http://www.changeworks.org.uk/uploads/wat/Gas_Central_Heating.pdf

...but the "twice" setting doesn't appear to work for the heating. It works as expected for the hot water, but not for the heating. The "once" setting seems to affect the heating, but we'd like it to come on in the morning *and* in the evening.

We've resorted to turning the heating on and off manually, instead.

Our boiler is set to its lowest setting, but both the hot water and radiators are still very very hot. We can't turn the boiler down any more.

Also, I don't know how to adjust the flow and return valves on the radiators so that it keeps warm, rather than hot or off.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

Click HERE and take particular attention of #1.
Your boiler stat controls the system water temperature. If as you say it is at its lowest setting then it could be faulty or the temp you want is out of range.

If it is out of range then there is a reason for this. The system is there to heat your house up and not to provide a specific temperature of water to each rad.

Thermostatic rad valves are the best way to control your rads They pay for themselves and save you money.

If you are concerned about the safety issue then a radiator cover aka 'dust trap' can be made to keep little hands unburnt.

 

[timmah1980]

Thanks for the quick response.

I did read that "before you post" message, but I'm not at home at the moment and couldn't check the make/model. I'll have a look when I'm home, and follow your other suggestions too. I'll also look into thermostatic rad valves.

It's not a specific temperature I'm after for individual radiators - just making them all less hot than they are currently.

Would turning down the flow valve on each one help? I wouldn't imagine that reducing the temperature - just the rate the water flowed into the radiator. After a given time, surely it'd be just as hot, no matter how high/low that was set - unless, of course, it's a thermostatic valve.

Obviously I'm no expert, though! )

Thanks again.

 

[JohnD]

your radiators will have a valve at each end. One might be a thermostatic or manual valve to turn it on or off.

at the other end is a lockshield valve used to control the flow though the radiator, and hence the heat output (you use it to balance the radiators, and to prevent a room with a big rad getting too hot too fast, while other rooms are still cold).

the lockshield valve can be nearly off (just open half a turn or so). you may have to remove a plastic cap to turn the spindle (once set, they should not be fiddled with)

you can buy a pipe thermometer, but as a guide, the flow pipe should be "too hot to hold" and the return pipe should be "too hot to hold for long". It is supposed to be set so that there is a discernable temperature drop across the radiator.

unless there is something wrong with your boiler thermostat, the water leaving it should be in the region of 60C to 80C depending on setting. Unless your rads are too small for your rooms, you will not usually need to have it at max temp except perhaps in very cold weather.

you sound as if you are turning the heating on and off by hand, like an electric heater. Haven't you got a room thermostat on the wall? If not, please send me a sack of ten-pound notes and I will burn them for you, which will be less wasteful.

I am a householder not a pro.

 

[timmah1980]

Well... we do have a wall-mounted thermostat dial in the hallway, but I'm not convinced this is working as effectively as it could, due to the layout downstairs. And if you're sitting comfortably, here's the explanation...

Other than the lounge, we only have one radiator downstairs, which is in the kitchen. This is switched off, due to being behind a fridge freezer. There is no radiator in the hallway (where the thermostat dial is), therefore it remains pretty cold in there all the time during winter. Therefore, the only radiator we use downstairs is the one in the lounge, and due to the difference in temperature from the hallway, we keep the lounge door closed whilst we're in there.

This means that the main thermostat dial constantly thinks it's freezing in the house, and therefore keeps the heating on. Other than the lounge radiator (and the one in the kitchen that we don't switch on because of the fridge-freezer), the only others are upstairs in the bedrooms - there isn't a radiator in the hallway upstairs either. Therefore, in order for the hallway to warm up enough for the thermostat to be satisfied it was hot enough, the lounge and bedrooms would need to far hotter than would be comfortable, in order for the heat to eventually reach the thermostat.

All the radiators have manual valves, rather than thermostatic ones, btw.

The control panel we have for the central heating is one of the on/off/once/twice sort (as stated in first post). Even though it seems to control the hot water properly (turning on and off at set times), it doesn't seem to have the same effect with the heating. "Twice" doesn't seem to work, and "once" seems to be an "always on" setting. Therefore, we've just been doing it manually by hand - switching it on when we get home from work, and off just before going to bed.

I'm aware the lack of radiators in the hallway might be less than ideal - a problem (along with many others) I attribute to the person who owned the house before us. They obviously had watched one too many DIY programs on TV and fancied themselves as a bit of a "jack of all trades", whereas in fact, they've just made a mess of most things.

From the other person who replied, I'm thinking maybe thermostatic valves are the best way to go - having first checked all the flow/return valves are where they should be, and the central heating/boiler controls aren't obviously set wrong. I'll definitely have another look at the central heating panel, to see if I can set it to come on automatically.

The problem is that my wife is expecting our first child in May, and we're having to partition off (with plasterboard walls) an area of the large master bedroom to create a smaller bedroom. This smaller room will have a small radiator, but we want to be able to have the heating on at a constant comfortable level, rather than boiling hot or freezing cold.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[JohnD]

you could drill a cable hole through the wall where the thermostat is, and mount it on the other side of the wall (if that's a heated room)

or you could fit one anywhere else you want, and either connect it with a convenient cable to the programmer, or for more £££s have a wireless one. If the programmer is in a convenient position the cable need only be a few inches long.

when you look up the make and model of your programmer we can help you find the instructions. If it is a Drayton /ACS you can probably plug a much simpler one onto the backplate, with a visible clock dial, if you like simple controls (I do) as they still make simple ones for customers like me.

 

[timmah1980]

The other side of the wall is into our kitchen, which has the switched off radiator. If we were to mount it in the lounge, it would need to bridge the gap of our stairs (the stairs run up the centre of the house; lounge on one side, kitchen on the other).

The programmer is upstairs in the spare bedroom, right next to the water tank/airing cupboard, which is directly above the thermostat. In order to move the thermostat, I'd need to run a cable into the main bedroom, and down through the wall cavity.

It'd be possible (and perhaps easiest) to have the wall thermostat in the same room as the programmer. The hot water cylinder is in an old built-in cupboard, which is in the same room and next-to the programmer. This spare bedroom is used as an office, and therefore I'd rather it didn't have the radiator on all the time, because a) computers don't like heat, and b) we're not often in that room. Not as often as we're in the lounge or bedroom, anyway.

So... I'd say having the thermostat in the lounge might be the best idea. Would you agree?

We've got an electrician coming on Saturday morning - I'll run the idea past him and see what he says. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[JohnD]

can't you run the cable under the stairs, on the cupboard wall?

Look to see where the existing cable goes as the stat can be put somewhere along the existing route without re-running it.

If not, it will be easier (=cheaper) to put the stat near the prog, unless you get a wireless one. the stat needs to be in a room that is usually heated. The cable can go through a wall if convenient.

you should not put cables inside cavity walls.

you can chase it into the plaster or clip it to the surface or put it in mini-trunking. It will be carrying mains voltage. Electricians will usually make chases but not redecorate. If you are paying for someone's time a wireless one may be no more expensive as there is little cabling. In this case you can get a more complex stat which includes its own timer for the CH.

 

[timmah1980]

Ok, thanks again for the advice.

If we were to go for a wireless one, can you recommend a particular make/model?

I guess this might depend on what boiler/programmer we've got at the moment, so they're compatible? Or would it be a totally new/separate system altogether?

I'll check the make/model of everything this evening and post them tomorrow morning.

 

[JohnD]

Drayton and Honeywell are two big brands. I'd be suspicious of any unknown cheap make.

Sometime they do a controls kitbox with a new programmer and electric valves and it works out much cheaper than buying individually

I am a householder not a pro.

 

[timmah1980]

The programmer says it's a "Lifestyle Model LP112". Couldn't see any other manufacturers marks on it.

Thermostat just says "Honeywell" on it.

And the boiley is a Glow-worm Fuelsaver Mk 2.

 

[JohnD]

Lifestyle Model LP112 is an Invensys product

they have various brand names, it will probably be "Drayton" or "ACL"

if you do a web search you will be able to find the manufacturers page and an instruction manual.

try round http://www.invensyscontrolseurope.c...Drayton/ElectronicTimeswitchesandProgrammers/