Prior to having A PIR I've been told that all internal sockets that can potentially be used for outdoor equipment now have to have RCD protection, so potentially most ground floor sockets near to windows and doors require RCD protection. How far do I need to go to satisfy this requirement, I planned on replacing the rewirable fuses with mcb's anyway but if I have to go to RCD's it will mean more expense.
Rcd protection
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If you do the sockets nearest the front and back doors, and any patio doors or french windows, it will be hard for anyone to argue convincingly that the others could reasonably be expected to supply equipment outside.
Are you fitting RCD sockets?
What sort of CU have you got? If you are buying half a dozen MCBs you may be surprised that you can get a split-load CU for a similar price, especially if you were thinking of buying a few RCD sockets as well. Of course you will have to have it properly fitted and tested, but you may be able to negotiate a price with the firm doing the PIR.
You may like to pop down to your local library or bookshop and get a copy of the on-site guide.
Are you fitting RCD sockets?
What sort of CU have you got? If you are buying half a dozen MCBs you may be surprised that you can get a split-load CU for a similar price, especially if you were thinking of buying a few RCD sockets as well. Of course you will have to have it properly fitted and tested, but you may be able to negotiate a price with the firm doing the PIR.
You may like to pop down to your local library or bookshop and get a copy of the on-site guide.
Thats correct
Yes... how many is this likely to be? ,what about upstairs sockets, would you consider it reasonable to throw a lead out a window?... no one can agree
Cheapest way would probably be stand alone RCD in a separate enclosure on downstairs ring (possibly same on upstairs), neatest option would be a CU change
You do realise that an RCD does a completely different job to an MCB don't you?
MCBs & Fuses - protection against excess current
RCDs - Protection against earth faults and 30ma provides supp. protection agsint direct contact
RCBOs - an MCB and RCD in the same unit
If your board takes fuses atm, it is very unlikely that you'll be able to fit an RCD or any RCBOs to it[/quote]
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Thanks John and Adam again, could I get away with just fitting rcd sockets to the potential areas, if not I'm going for the cheap option of a separate enclosure RCD after all I'm selling the house.Yes Adam I know mcb's work differently from RCD's but I wondered if you could get RCD's that replace rewirable fuses as you can get mcb's.
Using RCD sockets will satisfy the requirement for protection.
However, the PIR could show you need a board change and a new CU could be cheaper than the sockets you buy (depending on how many you fit). If the PIR is okay, except for the lack of RCD protection, you could get the spark doing the test to fit new sockets for you.
However, the PIR could show you need a board change and a new CU could be cheaper than the sockets you buy (depending on how many you fit). If the PIR is okay, except for the lack of RCD protection, you could get the spark doing the test to fit new sockets for you.
Thanks for the replies,Never had much to do with RCD's before so I have a few questions. I know you still need overcurrent protection in the form of an mcb but wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to go for an RCBO in a separate enclosure on the potential circuits rather than buy seperate mcb's and rcd's.
RCBOs are fairly expensive, I believe a retail price is typically £25 to £40 (something like half the list price of an RCD.... for anyone who pays list) and as they are not sold in such large numbers, they are less likely to be heavily discounted..
So if you have, say, three protected circuits on RCBOs, it will be more expensive than an RCD controlling three MCBs in a split-load CU with a single RCD.
It seems to me they are getting more common, especially as more manufacturers are making them to fit into the same size gap as an MCB in a CU (formerly, some manufacturers made them twice as wide).
MEM have a particularly clever pod that can be attached to most of their MCBs to turn it into an RCBO; these can be swapped and reused on different MCBs if your needs change, and are interchangable with their industrial and commercial devices, where they are not likely to be bought at retail list price. They are my favourite.
So if you have, say, three protected circuits on RCBOs, it will be more expensive than an RCD controlling three MCBs in a split-load CU with a single RCD.
It seems to me they are getting more common, especially as more manufacturers are making them to fit into the same size gap as an MCB in a CU (formerly, some manufacturers made them twice as wide).
MEM have a particularly clever pod that can be attached to most of their MCBs to turn it into an RCBO; these can be swapped and reused on different MCBs if your needs change, and are interchangable with their industrial and commercial devices, where they are not likely to be bought at retail list price. They are my favourite.
You need to know the result of the PIR before you can decide how to progress. If you need a new board it is still much cheaper to have a split load board fitted. I just priced the difference on TLC. A Contactum 32A Type B MCB is £4.50, and the equivalent RCBO is £36.95.
If you don't need a board change, these figures will be irrelevant.
If you don't need a board change, these figures will be irrelevant.
hello im mr walker from leeds,after reading all theese posts i think everybody is a little confused,ive been sparkying a few years now! unfortunatly here we go: the pir for a light i presume does not have to be on a rcd as long as it is out of arms reach (check your reg books) apprentices,niciec will not pull it as long as say 3m of the floor etc,as for b.walkers lawnmower socket i would reccomend he fits a split board with rcd,most wholesalers sale theese at 45 quid with 12 breakers included + vat or there abouts,therefor there is no need for rcd sockets as ring main is protected within elctropotencial l area and all ring mains+eternal buildings will go on the rcd side of the d.b. as everything has protection,
good luck to all elec apprencices stick it thru get your ticket,
to all diyeeeeers please consult a proper electrician,is you and your familys life worth it if your house goes up in middle of the night when asleep all to save 300 quid on a new fuse board???? distribution board elecs call it
good night!
MR WALKER
good luck to all elec apprencices stick it thru get your ticket,
to all diyeeeeers please consult a proper electrician,is you and your familys life worth it if your house goes up in middle of the night when asleep all to save 300 quid on a new fuse board???? distribution board elecs call it
good night!
MR WALKER
I somehow think it is you who happens to be confusedmr walker said:
Who mentioned PIRs for lights
If you have been sparking for a few years shouldn't you be familiar with what a Periodic Inspection Report is?, and I thought that the context makes it obvious as to that being the correct interpretation of the acronym, after all, no one else was confused by itAFAIK no RCD needed even if a PIR for a light fixture was in reach outside of the Equip. zone (however the max disconnection time is 0.4, as opposed to, I belive 5s if it was out of reach)
It may be that a split board is appropiate, but sparkies do tend to sometimes use them inappropiately because they are cheap
Simply having the sockets within the Equipotential area is not good enough, some of them might be used to supply equipment outside it
Now are are saying you would RCD protect the sockets? you just tried to say there was no need a minute ago, anyway I agree on a point i've assumed you have tried to make amongst this lot of babbling, that is, that outlets with RCD protection will serve no purpose and are not required on a circuit that is RCD protected back at the board
External buildings would be better off having RCD protection at their sub main boards instead
Thanks
, however I'm not doing an actual apprenticeship, they are practically impossible to get these days , so off to college to do the 2330 in September for me A proper electrician as opposed to a fake one that can manage to type five occurences of the letter 'e' instead of just the one?
(drunk? high?) Are you trying to say that a wylex standard board is automatically a fire risk? what do you base this assertion on?
Surely mr walker is some kind of wind up merchant. I hope he isn't really in the electrical contracting game.
split load boards are a severe corner cut and a clear violation of the spirit (if not the letter) of the discrimination regs, especially given the fact we use single pole MCBs (RCD+single pole MCB=very hard to work on circuit without tripping the RCD). They are *only* fitted as a cost cutting measure and are rarely seen in anything beyond domestic and very light commercial (the most price sensitive markets and who don't tend to really think about the long term use of the system).
RCBOs are rediculously overpriced in this country largely because noone uses them on domestic installs (chicken and egg problem). Also make sure you avoid single module RCBOs if using a type S RCD upstream as most of them don't isolate the neutral (again causing discrimination issues). Our RCD sockets also suck (expensive and no chaining output).
rant over
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