Rearranging pipework any issues?

[kevinsmbuk]

I have this run of pipework in our kitchen that we are renovating. It sits in completely the wrong place but we want to utilise it to feed a large 1400 x 600 double rad.

At the moment the pipework comes down from the ceiling goes through the brick wall and into lounge the out the lounge into the hallway to serve 1 radiator! (originally there was another small radiator which has been removed hence why there is a stop cap on the bottom of the pipework)

My plan was to cut it above ceiling run it going left in the image behind the RSJ (there is enough gap for 15mm and expansion) drop down into the recessed wall on the left of the image (which is going to be studed out level with the existing walls) then T'd to serve a radiator on that wall and then on the other part of the T have pipes running to the original connection that runs through wall to the hallway rad, sound ok??

 

[Madrab]

Only thing you'll need to watch is how large the radiators will be, 15mm should cope ok unless they're unusually large (>2000mm) but it will take a bit of balancing to get them to heat up at the same time. That and keep the run length to a minimum.

 

[kevinsmbuk]

Only thing you'll need to watch is how large the radiators will be, 15mm should cope ok unless they're unusually large (>2000mm) but it will take a bit of balancing to get them to heat up at the same time. That and keep the run length to a minimum.

Cheers for coming back to me, yeah pipe run will be minimal as possible. Maybe 1.5m to each valve. Does it matter that that it will be supplying the new rad before running to the hallway rad which which has no TRV and it comes on with the hot water aswell? Presume it's the rad that always needs to be on when hot water/heating is on. Also the room with the wireless stat.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Cheers for coming back to me, yeah pipe run will be minimal as possible. Maybe 1.5m to each valve. Does it matter that that it will be supplying the new rad before running to the hallway rad which which has no TRV and it comes on with the hot water aswell? Presume it's the rad that always needs to be on when hot water/heating is on. Also the room with the wireless stat.

It is usual to havee one radiator without a TRV, the one in the room or space where the same space where the thermostat is located and it should only come on with the space heating, not with the water. Often the rad which comes on with the water heating, will be the bathroom rad or towel rail, if there is such a setup at all.

 

[Madrab]

it comes on with the hot water aswell

That rad must have been setup as a system bypass then if it comes on regardless of whether HW or CH is calling. If that's the case then you will find the other rad will do the same. Not ideal TBH unless you're not bothered that the two will run regardless?

 

[kevinsmbuk]

It is usual to havee one radiator without a TRV, the one in the room or space where the same space where the thermostat is located and it should only come on with the space heating, not with the water. Often the rad which comes on with the water heating, will be the bathroom rad or towel rail, if there is such a setup at all.

It comes on with the hot water as well! I have no idea why it was plumbed that way!

 

[kevinsmbuk]

That rad must have been setup as a system bypass then if it comes on regardless of whether HW or CH is calling. If that's the case then you will find the other rad will do the same. Not ideal TBH unless you're not bothered that the two will run regardless?

Yeah sounds about right. The previous owner got the central heating installed to sell the house. So assuming it wasn't the best of installs!

Not really ideal that happens to be honest, but could I not isolate the kitchen rad in summer months as the hallway valves would be open permanently?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yeah sounds about right. The previous owner got the central heating installed to sell the house. So assuming it wasn't the best of installs!

Not really ideal that happens to be honest, but could I not isolate the kitchen rad in summer months as the hallway valves would be open permanently?

Much better to revise the pipework, than to continue with the lame system you have and compound it with a second radiator. If you only select heating, might that mean no heating in those two rads?

 

[kevinsmbuk]

Much better to revise the pipework, than to continue with the lame system you have and compound it with a second radiator. If you only select heating, might that mean no heating in those two rads?

No they heat up with heating aswell

 

[kevinsmbuk]

Much better to revise the pipework, than to continue with the lame system you have and compound it with a second radiator. If you only select heating, might that mean no heating in those two rads?

Any problems with isolating the dining room radiator in the winter, but leaving the hallway one on still permanently?

Hallway rad only heats up with water in the morning and later in the afternoon (2 x 1 hour's). It does heat up also with the heating as normal.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I'd think the Hallway Rad is set up as a bypass, although that would mean it shouldn't come on with the HW, unless you've a sticking Motorised Valve. Suggest looking at fitting a suitable Bypass elsewhere in the system whilst you got it drained down, and connect these 2 rads so they're under control. A large Rad banging out heat in the wrong place may affect the performance of the rest of the system, and you could find other rooms are too hot or cold for comfort.

Daughter's property (Rental) had the Ground Floor WC rad as bypass, she likes the place somewhat subtropical, and opening the door to the Loo is like opening the door to an oven....

As an aside, I'd be wary of running that white cable at a 45° angle....

 

[kevinsmbuk]

I'd think the Hallway Rad is set up as a bypass, although that would mean it shouldn't come on with the HW, unless you've a sticking Motorised Valve. Suggest looking at fitting a suitable Bypass elsewhere in the system whilst you got it drained down, and connect these 2 rads so they're under control. A large Rad banging out heat in the wrong place may affect the performance of the rest of the system, and you could find other rooms are too hot or cold for comfort.

Daughter's property (Rental) had the Ground Floor WC rad as bypass, she likes the place somewhat subtropical, and opening the door to the Loo is like opening the door to an oven....

As an aside, I'd be wary of running that white cable at a 45° angle....

Yeah I would imagine it's a bypass and I thought maybe a sticky diverter on the water side but then why wouldnt the rest of the rads heat up?

It's a little tricky reallocating the bypass elsewhere as there really isn't anywhere that suitable or with easy access for pipework. I would have thought balancing the system correctly throughout would solve the issue of performance?

The white cable is just a coax aerial cable, no worries with that.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Bypass is fitted to give a flow of water through the boiler and stop the Pump pushing against total resistance should the TRV's shut down, or Valves close when boiler has a Pump Overrun to dissipate heat after Stats have ceased to call for heat. Normal practice is either to use a Hallway Rad, or fit a bypass in the airing cupboard with the pump and motorised valves.

 

[kevinsmbuk]

Bypass is fitted to give a flow of water through the boiler and stop the Pump pushing against total resistance should the TRV's shut down, or Valves close when boiler has a Pump Overrun to dissipate heat after Stats have ceased to call for heat. Normal practice is either to use a Hallway Rad, or fit a bypass in the airing cupboard with the pump and motorised valves.

I understand that makes sense, so this is my bypass. If I used the pipework that supplies the hallway rad and divert to a kitchen radiator first, then T off that back to the hallway rad that would work?

If I didn't want the rad to heat when the hot water is turned on in the summer then I could isolate the kitchen rad (turn down TRV, would I have to turn lockshield off also?) and the flow would be redirected to the hallway rad, therefore keeping the bypass open?

 

[kevinsmbuk]

Any ideas guys? the reason I want to use this pipework is 1. it needs to be moved anyway and 2. the nearest pipe that I can tee off is across the other side of the room and I'm concerned the run will be too long for that size of rad.

I just need to know that as the new rad will be first on this pipework run, if I decided to isolate both valves presumably thats ok as the flow would be directed to the hallway rad which is next on the run and both lock shields would be open as normal therefore keeping the bypass in place.