Removing Stairs: Solutions to Extending Joists

[carson321]

Hi guys,

I am looking at removing the staircase (moving location) from my house and fill in the hole in the first floor. The stairs are bounded by a party wall and an internal wall. Obviously I need a structural engineer to do things properly, but in scoping the task I would like to know what my options will potentially be.

There are essentially no internal load bearing walls in the property, the 1st floor joists run from party wall to external wall, except where the opening is created for the existing staircase, where the joists that are interrupted are resting on this one internal wall.

If I remove the stairs and the wall, will I need a beam running in the location of the current wall (parallel and only 1m from the party wall)? Is there an option to somehow extend the joists in to the party wall so that there is no interruption to the ceiling level? Or install a header along the party wall and extend the joists to this? Or is there another option that I have not considered?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[bernardgreen]

When altering a stair case it is essential to consider the protection of escape routes in the case of a fire. The present stair case is protected from a downstairs fire by the door into the living room.

 

[paulrockliffe]

There's no requirement for a fire protected escape corridor for two story houses.

 

[bernardgreen]

There's no requirement for a fire protected escape corridor for two story houses.

There is no requirement for it but consider when you are at the top of the stairs with smoke and flame coming up towards you. At that time you may think otherwise.

 

[carson321]

When altering a stair case it is essential to consider the protection of escape routes in the case of a fire. The present stair case is protected from a downstairs fire by the door into the living room.

There's no requirement for a fire protected escape corridor for two story houses.

There will be no issue surrounding this, the new staircase will be sited in a newly built extension following all appropriate regs, any advice on my issue would be greatly received.

 

[^woody^]

If you are having an extension designed for the stairs, and in accordance with all regulations, and a structural engineer's design, then why can't you just let those people deal with it?

 

[carson321]

If you are having an extension designed for the stairs, and in accordance with all regulations, and a structural engineer's design, then why can't you just let those people deal with it?

Because I am currently at the opening stages of discussing plans with an architect on a fortnightly basis, and I would like to know my options re having the stairs removed and what solutions there are to supporting the joists if that wall is removed. Currently all plans have been to keep the wall and work it as storage space, I was just hoping for some advice on what might be possible if it comes out so I can go back to the architect with some suggested floor plans.

 

[paulrockliffe]

There is no requirement for it but consider when you are at the top of the stairs with smoke and flame coming up towards you. At that time you may think otherwise.

Perhaps, but you said it is essential, when it clearly isn't.

 

[bernardgreen]

Perhaps, but you said it is essential, when it clearly isn't.

One of my best mates was a fireman. People trapped upstairs by impassible stairs were the worse incidents to deal with.

 

[carson321]

And on topic, any suggestions on how to deal with the floating joists?!

 

[Nige F]

Just my 2d. worth - consider replacing the floating joists with engineered joists made to the same height as the existing - right across from party wall to outside wall onto joist hangers. Avoiding using new wood that will shrink across the grain. I'm not sure if sistering joists to the floating ones would be acceptable. 2 possibilities there to take to the designers/ architect.

 

[^woody^]

The only thing I would suggest is find a better architect.

The idea is that the client tells the designer his needs and requirements, and then the designer translates that into something that can be built - technically, meeting the client's brief and within the client's budget. If he can't work out a simple infill and maximising space, then what other things will be be crap at?

Not regular meetings, or discussing technical options. One meeting, a draft, tweak the draft if necessary, final design.

 

[JP_]

Get new joists put in?
I linked up a couple of floor joists with some steel strips with holes pre-drilled - floor still hasn't collapsed.
Could you just overlap the joists a bit. Loads of big screws or nails ...

 

[carson321]

Just my 2d. worth - consider replacing the floating joists with engineered joists made to the same height as the existing - right across from party wall to outside wall onto joist hangers. Avoiding using new wood that will shrink across the grain. I'm not sure if sistering joists to the floating ones would be acceptable. 2 possibilities there to take to the designers/ architect.

That's great, thanks for your useful input. So it should be acceptable to just replace with full length joists on to hangers embedded??/bolted?? to the walls?

The only thing I would suggest is find a better architect.

The idea is that the client tells the designer his needs and requirements, and then the designer translates that into something that can be built - technically, meeting the client's brief and within the client's budget. If he can't work out a simple infill and maximising space, then what other things will be be crap at?

Not regular meetings, or discussing technical options. One meeting, a draft, tweak the draft if necessary, final design.

That's fine, and my architect will be fine with doing that, but as I am at the very beginning of figuring out exactly what I want to do, I have had a few discussions with them whereby I keep changing things on him and probably making his job harder! E.g. the stairs weren't moving after the last chat with him. I'm sure they are perfectly capable of showing me what is possible and the options for doing it, I just thought I could make use of the community on here to help me firm up more of an idea of what I want to ask for first.

 

[John D v2.0]

In ours the new joists and old were drilled and clamped with bolts with a certain overlap.
The way it worked is the architect got a proposed design from the structural engineer, then asked for changes within the budget eg flush ceilings, which the SE then redesigned to suit.
The only thing that really came back to us to decide was whether we were happy to have a ceiling down stand on one of the beams, as that was less critical to the design and would be more difficult due to other beams and the upstairs joists. But that was just an either or choice, we didn't have to do any design.