Removing the wall around protected stairway, 3-storey house

[alex hm]

Hello all,

New to this forum, hopefully I can contribute in due course!

Got a fire regs question if anyone in the know can please advise? Haven’t bought the house (yet) so am not getting designs and submitting building regs approval. I'm keen to get a feel for what could be done.

The goal would be to remove the wall around the stairs in the middle of a 3-storey house to open up that middle floor that is the living area (see pink highlight in floorplan). I assume this wall is the protected stairway in the terms of the building regs.

Looking at Approved Document B, section 2, you need to have either a ‘protected stairway’ OR ‘alternative escape route’. So removing the protected stairway option, would one window on the top floor (in orange), that is over a balcony on the middle floor, suffice as an ‘alternative escape’? So you drop out of a top window to the balcony below, then drop from balcony to ground. See images. Any ideas? It looks like you can't have escape windows on the top floor of a three storey house because you're so high at the top. However, here there is the balcony. Do you think this would be approved, as an escape route with the protected stairway wall removed?

Cheers,

Alex

 

[^woody^]

That's not a suitable alternative.

 

[alex hm]

That's not a suitable alternative.

Thanks, why's that? Do you know of any other alternatives? Cheers

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Escaping out of a window is making the escape route worse so won't be considered. You might get away with having a sprinkler system installed throughout but ultimately you'd not know unless you press building control for an answer and they may well be non committal unless you submit something formally.

 

[^woody^]

Thanks, why's that? Do you know of any other alternatives? Cheers

An alternative escape route, is just that - a "proper" escape route protected from fire (even if not a protected route), enabling escape from the whole property to a place of safety. Not jumping out a second floor window on to a balcony, and then somehow dropping down to ground level!

Alternatives would be a proper external metal fire escape, or may be a full fire detection and suppression system. To determine if these are acceptable you will need a full fire safety risk assessment of the property from a qualified fire safety professional.

 

[alex hm]

Thanks for info. The regs talk about first floor escape windows and use of balconies as acceptable means of escape, so I'm wondering if that's acceptable then what I propose is essentially the same thing?!

 

[^woody^]

How do you get down from the balcony?

 

[alex hm]

I figure it's the same way you are meant to get out from a first floor escape window - an intrepid leap?!

 

[bernardgreen]

an intrepid leap?

Leaping and landing on flat ground is likely to cause some injury, leaping and landing on the railing of a balcony is likely to cause far more serious injury as all the impact is concentrated onto a small area of the body.

First floor escape windows are safer to use if one of these is available and people know how to use it

https://www.firesafetystore.co.uk/e...escape-ladders/15-foot-fire-escape-ladder-en/

Whatever your escape routes are practise using them. A dark, smoke filled house is not the place to try and work out how to get out.

 

[^woody^]

an intrepid leap?

@pilsbury is this really you? Same indomitable spirit

 

[Notch7]

Modern mist sprinkler systems are designed for domestic situations and may be suitable for your situation (or may not)

however it would need designing by a fire safety expert or trained architect. Maybe the mist companies offer such a service.

I did a project where the mist system went off shortly after commissioning and ruined a rather expensive grand piano…..luckily nothing to do with me

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Escaping out of a window is making the escape route worse so won't be considered.

 

[alex hm]

Cheers

Is it like that in the regs though? I.e. where there is either option A and B in this case, it doesn't say you can't switch from complying with A to B?

 

[^woody^]

Cheers

Is it like that in the regs though? I.e. where there is either option A and B in this case, it doesn't say you can't switch from complying with A to B?

Your not reading the regulations you are reading the Approved Document -which merely give some examples of how to comply with the regulations.

 

[Handy1971]

Apologies for hi-jacking this thread but its on the same lines, a protected stairway in a two storey house, ground and a first floor only.
No means of escape via windows, does the ground floor and 1st floor ceilings need to offer 30 minutes or is it just the tube of the protected stairway leading to a final exit.
Cheers Andy