Removing wall above load bearing wall

[Ren_o5]

I have an internal L-shaped wall in my Victorian extension that I wish to remove to enlarge the kitchen. This wall is load bearing. On the first floor the walls are brick nog (bricks on their side with vertical wooden struts every foot or so).

Q: If I take out the upstairs wall first (I am planning on replacing with stud walls and rearranging the layout slightly), can I then take out the ground floor walls, or will I still have to insert an RSJ. Only a short part of the L-shaped wall runs at right angles to the joists, although it's a corridors' width, and therefore unlikely that they rest on the wall.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

 

[TexMex]

Welcome Ren_o5. Unfortunately, this is going to be dificult to evaluate remotely. Sounds like you'll need a structural engineer, or a surveyor. I note you say

This wall is load bearing

How do you come to this conclusion. Have you been told as much already? If so, who by?

If the wall you are removing is just supporting a few joists, it may be possible to either: replace the affected joists with longer ones, or: bolt new joist sections beside them (effectively joining them together).

From what you say, I'd guess that this wall is not supporting anything but, you really need to get someone to take a look.

 

[Ren_o5]

Thanks for your swift reply.

I have had 2 structural engineers look at it - they both said it's load bearing as the 1st floor walls are directly on top of the ground floor walls.

I don't think I'll have to do anything to the joists as they run at right angles to the wall, except along the shorter part of the L-shape where the 2 small rooms on ground and 1st floor make a corridor. As the extension is only 2.6m wide (incl corridor) the joists must go all the way across the extension rather than resting on the internal walls. I will of course check this before doing anything.

Two other points - 1) one of the engineers said I _may_ have to put in a brace to stop the walls falling in on eachother - I don't think so as the floor and ceiling joist on both floors run across the 2.6m width of the extension - surely these would be enough?

2) Do I need building regs approval as it's all internal and I am only removing bricks which abut a party wall and am not doing anything to the party wall itself.

 

[JerryD]

You most certainly do need regs on this (at minimum a building notice) as you are making a fundemental structural alteration to the house.

The council will want to see your engineer's calculations for the beam, any piers and any padstones. You will need the engineer's name and address on any paperwork in order to be covered by his Indemnity insurance (assuming he has any!)

Your roof may be partly supported by the upstairs walls too so make sure you know what your doing before starting anything. Remember if your house collapses or is structurally damaged by your work, it is not insured.

Steel beams also need fire protecting (all part of the regs).

 

[Ren_o5]

I've had a better look at it last night and the wall I am removing goes from the ground floor up between 2 joists to the ceiling of the 1st floor. No beams or joists are resting on it. The other shorter part of the L-shaped wall which runs perpendicular to the joists on the 1st floor actually sits on top of the floor boards. I am taking out all of these 1st floor walls, and the same directly below on the ground floor.

The extension was built late 20's, early 30's and the 1st floor walls are made of large grey bricks. Ground floor are plain brick walls.

As I am taking out the 1st and ground floor walls, and no joists rest on the walls, why do I need a steel? These walls are supporting nothing except themselves, and perhaps providing a very small amount of bracing against the walls falling in. As there are 20 joists going across on each floor, I doubt any bracing or steel is required for that either.

 

[masona]

As I am taking out the 1st and ground floor walls, and no joists rest on the walls, why do I need a steel? These walls are supporting nothing except themselves, and perhaps providing a very small amount of bracing against the walls falling in. As there are 20 joists going across on each floor, I doubt any bracing or steel is required for that either.

Maybe but I don't think anyone can advise you without seeing it, sorry.

I have had 2 structural engineers look at it

What did they say or advise you to do ?

 

[Ren_o5]

Thanks for your responses. I am quite confident that I can take down the walls under "permitted development rights" allowing me to make internal alterations which do not require steels or reinforcement, and does not affect a party wall.