Repairing rotten joist in bathroom

[Meerkat1]

I am in the process of extending and renovating my house. Whilst stripping the main bathroom, the builder removed what used to be the shower bath. I noticed some rotten timbers and joist beneath. I expressed concern about this to him, and he assured me that he would simply replace the damaged bits then move on. I have asked him to replace all the floorboards instead, since he is placing new floorboards in the extended area of said bathroom. He has now placed a new (greenwood) joist in the floor directly against the old rotten one. Apparently, when asked if it was best to remove it, he stated that this isn't necessary. Am I just panicking unecessarily or should he have removed part of the old joist before placing the new one? Any advice...?

 

[r896neo]

Ideally you would remove it if it has rotten like that especially if there is a possibility that it was attacked by woodworm or dry rot. In the bathroom of course simple wet rot is more likely but if it's not hard to get out i'd get rid of it.

At the very least you would want to clear a lot of that crap out around it.

 

[joinerjohn]

I'd be more worried about the large amount he's cut out of the joist at the left hand end. It looks like you've got a joist around an inch by 2 inches at that point, which will support absolutely nothing.
If this has been caused by wet rot, I though that the builder would have at least removed the old rotten timber.

 

[r896neo]

It looks to me as if the joist is bearing on the masonary at the start of the notch where the pencil marks are.

 

[Meerkat1]

Thanks for the advice guys. I am a little miffed about the fact that he didn't remove it now, especially as I've been told by my sister who was in the house at the time, that the carpenter asked to remove it, but was told to leave it because it's too much work.

I'd be more worried about the large amount he's cut out of the joist at the left hand end. It looks like you've got a joist around an inch by 2 inches at that point, which will support absolutely nothing.
If this has been caused by wet rot, I though that the builder would have at least removed the old rotten timber.

I'm equally if not more concerned about the chunk out of the joist, and I'm a little annoyed at myself for not voicing my own concerns about it, because even to a layperson's eye like mine it doesn't look quite right. This incidentally, is directly below what will be an 800x800 corner shower enclosure.

Or, is it the case as r896neo states, that:

It looks to me as if the joist is bearing on the masonary at the start of the notch where the pencil marks are.

Is this a good thing (more support?)

 

[r896neo]

I don't know really without seeing it. If it truely is bearing on the thin end that has a massive notch out of it then it is a very bad bit of work. However it looks to me from the photo that it is actually bearing on the masornary at the start of the cut where the pencil lines are.

It would be worth checking. Try sliding a piece of paper under it and the place where it doesn't go under is where it is bearing on.

 

[Meerkat1]

I have cleared out all the rubbish (from that area only) and it is certainly not bearing on the masonry. Posted photo below. Will definitely be raising this with him in the morning, along with clearing the rubbish out from there. The bag I took out alone weighed over 1kg which can't be good for the ceiling below. Am I right in thinking that he needs to replace new joist with new one with notch cut with step down to next level of the masonry. Will that be structurally sound?

 

[r896neo]

It's hard to see what it's actually bearing on from the photo's but to give you an example, by cutting out a notch that size you are effectively reducing the joist size to whatever thickness the thin section is.

Of course the span maybe is tiny and you could get away with a tiny tinmber but you don't see many floor joists at 4x2 inches which is effectively what you are left with after his butchering.

4x2 is purely a guess from the photo's. The joist would usually be replaced like for like.

 

[Nige F]

I'm equally if not more concerned about the chunk out of the joist, This incidentally, is directly below what will be an 800x800 corner shower enclosure.

Is this a good thing (more support?)

O- M - G you have a bodger and are heading for a disaster Incidently you need someone with a "bit" more skill if you are having any shower fitted . Good Luck , you`ll need it

 

[Deluks]

that the carpenter asked to remove it, but was told to leave it because it's too much work.

Too much work for a carpenter to saw through a piece of timber?

 

[mointainwalker]

Bloody Meerkats ! Cleaned up the ad business, now moving in on the housing market !

 

[Meerkat1]

Yeh okay, thanks for that mointainwalker! Now back to serious business!! I am worried, but the joists I have seen him fit in other parts of the house are far more secure and nothing like that frankenstein thing the carpenter bodged up in the bathroom. Hence why alarm bells started to ring, although I dismissed them as the panickings of a complete novice. Nonetheless, inexcusable, that he didn't instruct the carpenter to remove the old joist and cut the new one properly! To be honest, my feeling is that he resents addressing problems relating to the old build, although the new build is sound. This is not accepatable I know. Fortunately we are living in the property whilst the works take place, which enables us to see what is happening at every stage of the process. I will certainly be even more vigilant now that this joist fiasco has occured and I will be making an urgent call to the architect in the morning asking him to inspect the work so far, whilst some floors are still up. Thanks so much for the advice. It's hard to swallow but a real wake up call.

 

[Meerkat1]

Thanks so much to all of you for taking the time to reply and share your knowledge and expertise. I just wanted to update you on the current situation. It looks like legal proceedings will be taking place (surprise, surprise!!) and all works are at a stand still. Without your advice, the situation would have been alot worse than it already is. And my builder would've been alot richer...! Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.

 

[Nige F]

Glad we all saved you from an appearance on Cowboy Builders Though to be fair New build and Repair/refurb are 2 different things . He who builds new can`t necesarily refurb to a standard I would find acceptable - And also I can assure you that refurb is the Poor Relation in any building environment , this will only get worse as Old Skool tradesmen retire . Good Luck