Replace socket with fused spur at ring circuit socket.

[Adrian1662]

Hi, I want to replace a socket with w fused spur. That socket is located in the kitchen next to vent chimney and looks ugly with vent cable running on the wall. I want to hide the cable behind the plaster wall wich is easy to do.

The hotpoint cooker vent is double insulated so it’s direct connection has only a live and a neutral.

I have unscrewed the socket but it has got two live cables meeting in the single socket, which as I read, is called a ring circuit. See photo.

Now the big Q, can I replace the socket with a fused spur 13A where two existing red lives will go to IN and the appliance brown live will go to OUT?

Thanks

 

[ericmark]

Two cables does not equal ring final, it may well be a ring final but it would need testing to confirm that. As to "can I" well I have no idea of your skill, in England I see no regs problem, in Wales the kitchen is a special location, however who will know? It done correctly likely no one, if error is made the HSE seem to be good at getting to the facts.

There is no sleeving on the earth, and this rings alarm bells, electricians tend to carry a hank of earth sleeving but to buy a small quantity is hard so DIY often has the sleeving missing. Not a big problem in its self, but it rings the alarm bells, so testing is going to be required.

 

[JohnW2]

Hi, I want to replace a socket with w fused spur. That socket is located in the kitchen next to vent chimney and looks ugly with vent cable running on the wall. I want to hide the cable behind the plaster wall wich is easy to do. .... The hotpoint cooker vent is double insulated so it’s direct connection has only a live and a neutral.

Fair enough. What you are describing as a 'fused spur' is correctly called a 'Fuses Connection Unit' ('FCU')

I have unscrewed the socket but it has got two live cables meeting in the single socket, which as I read, is called a ring circuit. See photo.

Yes, probably (but not inevitably) a ring. There are two 'lives' (red) and two neutrals (black)

Now the big Q, can I replace the socket with a fused spur 13A where two existing red lives will go to IN and the appliance brown live will go to OUT?

Yes, thee two red wires to the 'L' of the 'IN' and the two black wires to the 'N' of thje IN - and then, as you say, connect thee appliance to the OUT terminals.

However, a few poinst...

1... in the (pretty unlikely) possibility that it is not a ring, there would, strictly speaking, possibly be some 'potential 'issues', but, particularly for your intended purpose, I would not personally be concerned about that, particularly since the situation would be 'no worse' than it is at present.

2... if you are going to bury the cable to the vent, it must remain within prescribed zones - aligned vertically or horizontally with the FCU - it cannot 'turn corners' or 'go diagonally' within plaster.

3... those bare 'earth wires' should be enclosed in green/yellow sleeving.

Hope that helps.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Murdochcat]

Adding a grommet to the back box would be a good idea to the opening where the cables enter the back box

 

[Adrian1662]

Fair enough. What you are describing as a 'fused spur' is correctly called a 'Fuses Connection Unit' ('FCU')

Yes, probably (but not inevitably) a ring. There are two 'lives' (red) and two neutrals (black)

Yes, thee two red wires to the 'L' of the 'IN' and the two black wires to the 'N' of thje IN - and then, as you say, connect thee appliance to the OUT terminals.

However, a few poinst...

1... in the (pretty unlikely) possibility that it is not a ring, there would, strictly speaking, possibly be some 'potential 'issues', but, particularly for your intended purpose, I would not personally be concerned about that, particularly since the situation would be 'no worse' than it is at present.

2... if you are going to bury the cable to the vent, it must remain within prescribed zones - aligned vertically or horizontally with the FCU - it cannot 'turn corners' or 'go diagonally' within plaster.

3... those bare 'earth wires' should be enclosed in green/yellow sleeving.

Hope that helps.

Kind Regards, John

Thanks John

It’s a very short distance and cable came from the manufacturer folded and bend

 

[Adrian1662]

Fair enough. What you are describing as a 'fused spur' is correctly called a 'Fuses Connection Unit' ('FCU')

Yes, probably (but not inevitably) a ring. There are two 'lives' (red) and two neutrals (black)

Yes, thee two red wires to the 'L' of the 'IN' and the two black wires to the 'N' of thje IN - and then, as you say, connect thee appliance to the OUT terminals.

However, a few poinst...

1... in the (pretty unlikely) possibility that it is not a ring, there would, strictly speaking, possibly be some 'potential 'issues', but, particularly for your intended purpose, I would not personally be concerned about that, particularly since the situation would be 'no worse' than it is at present.

2... if you are going to bury the cable to the vent, it must remain within prescribed zones - aligned vertically or horizontally with the FCU - it cannot 'turn corners' or 'go diagonally' within plaster.

3... those bare 'earth wires' should be enclosed in green/yellow sleeving.

Hope that helps.

Kind Regards, John

A dumb question. If I instal the FCU and turn the switch off, would it cut off energy to the circuit or just the appliance?

 

[JohnW2]

Two cables does not equal ring final, it may well be a ring final but it would need testing to confirm that.

It doesn't matter if it is a ring or a radial. As far as I can see, the only theoretical issue, in terms of regs, would be if it were a spur from a ring final that had a furyther 'sprur' coming from it. However, as I wrote, if that's the case it would already be the situation, and changing the socket to an FCU (to supply a very small load) would change nothing - i.e. 'no worse'than it currently is.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks John .... It’s a very short distance and cable came from the manufacturer folded and bend

As far as the regulations are concerned, being only a short distance does not 'take one off the hook'. As I wrote, if the cable is to be buried in plaster, then, regardless of its length, it's entire run should be aligned (either vertically or horizontally) with the electrical accessories it's connected to - as I said,with no 'bends' or diagonal paths.

Provided you ae in England (not Wales, as ericsaid), whether or not you wish to comply with those regulations is essentially your decision.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Ragnar_AT]

A dumb question. If I instal the FCU and turn the switch off, would it cut off energy to the circuit or just the appliance?

If the FCU is installed as described above (i.e. correctly), the switch only controls the cooker hood.

Just don‘t mix up the in and out (or line and load) terminals like a genius at a mate‘s gran‘s did. At her place the cooker switch kills a socket in an upstairs bedroom because the switch interrupts the neutral to the socket. Spurring a socket off of the cooker circuit doesn‘t sound like the greatest idea in the first place but then connecting the neutral to the outgoing side of the switch is just plain stupid.

 

[chivers67]

I was wondering where that post was going at first Ragnar O Matron!

 

[Adrian1662]

Works ok!

 

[Murdochcat]

Works ok!

No grommets in the back box

 

[Adrian1662]

No grommets in the back box

Could not find any in diy store if cables are double insulated what’s the need?

 

[ebee]

Provided you ae in England (not Wales, as ericsaid), whether or not you wish to comply with those regulations is essentially your decision.

you not saying in one you must comply with regs (IEE Wiring Regs?) but the other need not are you John?

 

[ebee]

Could not find any in diy store if cables are double insulated what’s the need?

yes you should use grommets