Replacing electric shower in flat. Advice Needed Please!

[agentm]

I live in a 2 bedroom flat on the third floor of a three floor apartment block. I am about to begin a new bathroom installation, and would greatly appreciate some advice regarding replacing an electric shower with a pumped thermostatic mixer shower.

At present, there is a Range Direct Fortic F1 Super Seven 1850mm (H) X 450mm (D) Combination Cylinder installed in a boxed cupboard in the bedroom adjacent to the bathroom.

A bathroom installer has told me that this cylinder is not suitable for a pump, and that there would be an insufficient supply of water for a shower. He suggested that I replace this cylinder and install a Salamander 1.5 bar whole house pump. The cold water pressure is fine as it is now, but the hot water pressure is poor throughout the flat. The intention of installing the pump is to improve the hot water pressure in the kitchen as well as the bathroom.

I have no idea what a suitable replacement cylinder would be, or if a pump is in fact a practical solution, so I'd be grateful if anybody would take the time to offer their opinion. If it's any assistance, the shower unit I've been considering is manufactured by Hansgrohe.

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

 

[Tibbot]

It's the cold stored water volume in a combination cylinder that'll be insufficient for a pumped shower. If you've permission to use the loft (as you're top floor) then you could site a 50 gallon cold water storage tank which will supply an indirect cylinder as well as direct cold to the shower pump. HW to pump will of course come from cyl.

If you've no loft access, stick with electric.

PS. I wouldn't try to boost HW to match mains cold in a shared building like with flats

 

[seco services]

this is a fortic with cold supply.

this is a the cylinder he is talking about
and fit a seperate cold supply higher up above cylinder.

 

[agentm]

If you've permission to use the loft (as you're top floor) then you could site a 50 gallon cold water storage tank which will supply an indirect cylinder as well as direct cold to the shower pump.

Thanks for the reply Tibbot. Unfortunately I cannot utilise the communal loft space; but my flat does have very high ceilings. I have lots of empty space above the current Range Direct Fortic F1 (even though it's a boxed cupboard space) so a larger option is plausible. I'd really prefer to move away from an electric shower.

 

[agentm]

Seco Services - I think that the current cylinder is shown here. Thanks for giving me some idea of what would need to be in its place.

 

[Tibbot]

my flat does have very high ceilings. I have lots of empty space above the current Range Direct Fortic F1 (even though it's a boxed cupboard space) so a larger option is plausible

Then if you can keep the shower head and pipework below the bottom of the cold tank, you'll be able to fit a positive (cheaper) rather than negative head shower pump.

 

[ajrobb]

If the mains supply is fine, why go for a pump? Have you considered an unvented hot water cylinder?

 

[agentm]

Thanks again Tibbot. So am I correct in thinking that a secondary cold water tank could be installed on a platform above the current cylinder (I think that it holds 210 litres of hot water and 40 litres of cold water; electric heats the hot water), or will the current cylinder have to be removed completely. This will certainly help me to understand the cost involved.

 

[Tibbot]

If the mains supply is fine, why go for a pump? Have you considered an unvented hot water cylinder?

A very good suggestion if no siting problems either.

 

[agentm]

If the mains supply is fine, why go for a pump? Have you considered an unvented hot water cylinder?

Thanks ajrobb - although the cold mains supply seems fine to me, there is no pressure with the hot water whatsoever. It really is terrible. When measuring and assessing, the bathroom installer suggested that a pump would definitely need to be installed.

 

[Tibbot]

will the current cylinder have to be removed completely.

You'll need a new cylinder with this, so that makes ajrobb's suggestion more appealing if you've the mains pressure and access for a pressure drain outlet. (soil stack within piping reach of cylinder position).

 

[ajrobb]

With an 'unvented' cylinder, the hot water pressure comes from the mains and not from a cold tank. Unvented cylinders must be professionally installed as they include safety devices.

 

[Tibbot]

Your HW will be at mains pressure with ajrobb's idea.

 

[agentm]

Thanks so much everybody. At least I can now put some suggestions to the installer without sounding like a total muppet! Seeing as this isn't going to be cheap, I'd like to be sure about using the solution to provide the best possible results (and hopefully have a hot shower with a decent pressure that lasts longer than a few minutes!)

 

[ajrobb]

To check if an unvented cylinder will give you a decent shower, you can choose your new shower head, connect it to a cold water supply on the mains and see if you get a decent flow. Measure this flow with a bucket and stopwatch, combine this with the time you spend in the shower to calculate how much water you need. The worst case, in the winter, about 60% of a shower is hot water and 40% is cold (assuming hot water at 60°C, cold water at 5°C and shower at 38°C).

Mains water pressure varies at different times of day so test the flow when you normally shower. (I rented a flat in Paris on the 4th floor and literally had no water at 8 a.m.)