Roof re-done but lead flashing not reused, felt instead?

[MasterMark]

Hello all. Had a very old flat roof that needed re-doing, and it was finished today (felt). I had originally been told that the existing lead flashing would be re-used (I think it was in perfectly decent nick), but it hasn't. I did ask before they left, but didn't really follow the response and then had to jump on a work call so got distracted. Not ideal.

Photos attached showing the roof before and after. Looks like they've chased the felt into the brickwork "reveal" where the original lead flashing would have been, and then mortared over it.

It looks a bit messy (to the untrained eye), but frankly as long as it's been done well I'm not too fussed - I don't see the roof, the work comes with an insurance-backed guarantee and I'm unlikely to be in the property in 10 years' time! That said, if it's NOT been done properly, I'd obviously like it remedied.

Could anyone with experience let me know their thoughts? If relevant, they added 50mm of insulation (as much as they could because of where those windows start) which is why it looks like everything is sitting higher than before.

Thank you!

 

[datarebal]

I see an original flashing which may have been a tray. Then there is a later flashing cut into the brick and not a joint ..
So two sets of leadworks at differing ages .
If the original lead was a tray , then what have they done with it? Is it still in place but below the new cap sheet ?

 

[MasterMark]

Thanks for the response.

Sorry, yes, there were two sets of leadwork, as you say. I've added another 'before' photo which might show these two layers better.

Again if relevant, when they quoted originally they said that it felt sufficiently solid to suggest the wood below was in perfectly decent shape, and so they could just relay the new roof over the old. (They gave me the option to remove everything and start from scratch, but that in their opinion it would be an unnecessary expense).

So the question I should be asking them is whether they retained the bottom layer/original leadwork, and laid the cap-sheet on top of this (which is what you are supposed to do?). And if they tell me they removed everything completely?

 

[^woody^]

The felt upstand is OK, but if lead flashing was specified or existing it should be re-used. Has it been weighed in by the roofers? If so has the cost been knocked off the bill?

 

[datarebal]

The point i made is, if the older lead was infact a tray, then it is now either cut off or within the new felt roof.
Either way it is a potential problem

 

[catlad]

I suspect they have took out the lead to weigh it in. It would be neighbourly of you to inform them their glass panels are coming adrift on their balcony!

 

[MasterMark]

Thanks all.

Sorry for lack of knowledge of terminology - by "tray", do you mean just around the window frame, or the right-angled runs of lead I see are sold pre-made to butt up against walls/lean-to?

I have asked the question of why the lead flashings weren't re-used as specified/quoted for, so let's see what they come back with.

@ Catlad - good spot! And yes, I'd already told the above owner his balcony glass panels are no longer safely secured, but he's disappeared off the planet and doesn't seem to be there any more...

 

[^woody^]

The point i made is, if the older lead was infact a tray, then it is now either cut off or within the new felt roof.
Either way it is a potential problem

It's a solid wall.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So the question I should be asking them is whether they retained the bottom layer/original leadwork, and laid the cap-sheet on top of this (which is what you are supposed to do?). And if they tell me they removed everything completely?

A metal detector would confirm whether or not there was lead under there.

 

[datarebal]

Brick bond is not définitive . It may or may not be .

 

[^woody^]

Brick bond is not définitive . It may or may not be .

It's an ancient property.

 

[datarebal]

Hardly ancient ...re read my original post

 

[MasterMark]

So the response I got is as follows. Sounds perfectly logical to me?!

"The reason that the lead was not reused was that the chase for this was cut in the middle of a brick, not the mortar course as it should have been and the chase was about some 5-6mm deep and the lead was only held in place by a thin bead of mastic. This meant that when we tried to turn it back to reuse it, it fell out of the chase and was not able to be reused, nor was the chase.

This meant that he had to mechanically cut a new chase, which is now some 30mm deep, into the wall using a double-bladed angle grinder, thereby giving a wider chase for the new flashings to be fitted into with enough space to fit enough mortar to point them in properly. Manufacturer’s specifications are actually for all cover flashings to be formed using the cap sheet material as we have done here"

 

[^woody^]

So the response I got is as follows. Sounds perfectly logical to me?!

"The reason that the lead was not reused was that the chase for this was cut in the middle of a brick, not the mortar course as it should have been and the chase was about some 5-6mm deep and the lead was only held in place by a thin bead of mastic. This meant that when we tried to turn it back to reuse it, it fell out of the chase and was not able to be reused, nor was the chase.

This meant that he had to mechanically cut a new chase, which is now some 30mm deep, into the wall using a double-bladed angle grinder, thereby giving a wider chase for the new flashings to be fitted into with enough space to fit enough mortar to point them in properly. Manufacturer’s specifications are actually for all cover flashings to be formed using the cap sheet material as we have done here"

Flannel, blarney or baloney. Pick one.

Dress the upstand up the wall, dress the lead over it.

What happened to the £100 or more worth of lead?

 

[MasterMark]

Flannel, blarney or baloney. Pick one.

Haha, thanks Woody. They also said:

"Our original estimate assumed that the lead cover flashings had been correctly fitted into the brickwork and that it would be a simple exercise to leave these in situ and lift and redress, (not reinstall) them over our newly formed upstands. Obviously, to cut the chase and then cut, fit and bond the new lengths of cover flashing, plus then point these in could be construed as additional work."

In his defence he's offered to refund the scrap cost of the lead (I'd estimated about 75kg in total).

Truth be told, as long as the felt upstand is fine and has been done well enough (and you suggested above it looked ok), that's what I'm really interested in. Yes, they should have told me while they doing the work if there was going to be a change from the agreed spec, but in practice I don't think I have all that much to gain by pushing more.

Appreciate all the time & comments from you, and indeed everyone else!