Rough cost of a (not so rough) plastering job.

[armour]

Hi to all you plasterers, I'm having a complete kitchen refit and need the ceiling boarded & plastered. I'll get the walls skimmed at the same time.
Hopefully some of you will be able to tell me what the cost of a decent professional job would be and how to select a man (or woman) to do it. - I had my bathroom done recently (by the guy who gave the lowest quote) & within 4 months cracks started to appear. Yer man came back & filled the cracks & they seem OK (1 month later) but obviously I'd like the job done properly this time.
I know that although you're all probably great plasterers, you're not psychic so here are the dimensions of the kitchen:
2550l x 2300w x 2750h
There are 2 doorways each 900 x 2100
1 window 1000 x 1400.
The ceiling is completely down, so the joists are showing, also I intend to put units along 2 walls (2300 + 2550). so that should save a bit of plaster.

I need the job done in 3 weeks time so if I can get the right guy I can book him up ( I expect the best plasterers are always booked up).

Well thats it. Any input appreciated.

 

[Alastairreid]

£300ish possibly more because of your location.

its easier and best to plaster before you hang your wall units.

 

[armour]

Thanks for your response Alistair. That seems reasonable. I have had an "informal" quote, from a friend of a freind of a freind at "£450 for cash". which I thought was excessive (& I didn't like the way he assumed that I was as willing to cheat on the tax as he obviously was).
If you wouldn't mind could you go through what would be involved as regards plasterboard, tape, PVA, plaster and skim/finish and the likely timescale.
By the way, when I mentioned units I meant base units 600mm off the ground as an area which wouldn't need plastering.
Thanks again for taking the trouble to answer.

 

[Richard C]

Fairly small room but probably still 2 days worth if he's working alone & doing the ceiling work as well; £450 from a decent spread may be a little heavy in the current climate but, given the location, I wouldn’t say it’s excessive especially if it includes materials; wouldn’t like to comment on the tax issue. You should skim behind the units down the floor, the cost of the plaster is negligible & it won’t save your spread any time; in fact it’ll be a pain for him.

Why do you need to know about the materials being used, do you intend boarding & prepping yourself?

 

[armour]

Thanks for your reply Richard. No I don't intend to do any of the work myself, it's just that I've been told that the reason the b/room plaster cracked up was because of insufficient/poorly applied PVA (I don't know how true this is).
I figure if, at the quote stage I get the guy to talk me through the stages I'll be better able to judge if he's likely to do a good job and there will be no confusion about materials/methods used etc.
For example, I've heard that nowadays plasterboard isn't always skimmed -In a friend's ( brand new) house you can see the plasterboard nails showing through for this very reason, so if a plasterer said to not skim the ceiling I wouldnt give him the job.
It may seem that I'm asking a lot but it's just that I want to feel confident that I'm going to get a good job done. Next year I intend to get the rest of the house skimmed. So if I get a good guy now it'll save me a load of hassle later.
Once again, any input appreciated.

 

[Richard C]

Thanks for your reply Richard. No I don't intend to do any of the work myself, it's just that I've been told that the reason the b/room plaster cracked up was because of insufficient/poorly applied PVA (I don't know how true this is).

PVA is versatile & used for many reasons but, in itself, won’t prevent cracks appearing. Were they cracks that appeared or was it crazing? Were the cracks in the walls or the ceiling? Were there any cracks there before it was skimmed?

For example, I've heard that nowadays plasterboard isn't always skimmed

Tape & fill is, IMO, a cheap & nasty way of finishing plasterboard in a residential property, as are stud walls. It’s primarily done by “Wimbarretsimon” type estate builders to save the cost of plastering (tape & fill needs comparatively little skill) or DIY because they can’t plaster & don’t want to go to the expense buying in a spread.

In a friend's ( brand new) house you can see the plasterboard nails showing through for this very reason,

Never use nails to fix PB, they relax their grip over time allowing the boards to move & the plaster to crack around the heads & along the board joints; only ever use black drywall screws & fix ever 150mm - 200mm max. If you can still see the nail heads in your friend’s house, it truly is a cheap & nasty job; tell him to sell up & move to a decently built property ASAP.

so if a plasterer said to not skim the ceiling I wouldn’t give him the job.

If he said that, he’s no plasterer & wouldn’t give him the job either.

 

[armour]

Thanks for those tips Richard, I've got a better Idea of what to listen out for when I get the quoters round.
I've been onto yell & left messages for 6 local plasterers -hopefully 3 or 4 will come round to quote & I'll be able to make a decision by the weekend.

As regards the cracks in the bathroom plaster, they were in two groups

View media item 15607View media item 15606View media item 15605 View media item 15604
One group extending up a wall/wall corner and then across the ceiling/wall corner before branching out over the ceiling.

The other ( more minor ) colony of cracks were in an opposite corner. The ceiling had been artexed before if this makes any difference.

There were no noticable cracks in the original plaster.

 

[trowelmonkey1]

i'd quote £400 inc. materials for the kitchen, going rate round by me, and DEFINITELY leave the units off until skimmed if you can, you'll get a better job of it.

those bathroom cracks are quite substantial
did you have any cracks there before it was skimmed?

 

[Richard C]

Comments on cracks;
I can categorically say that those cracks have nothing whatsoever to do with incorrect use of PVA or the total lack of it!

1st picture is to do with differential movement between the walls & the ceiling boards & it happens for various reasons. To avoid customer dissapointment, checks should be made to ensure the ceiling boards are well fixed & the joists are adequate & in good condition before plastering but, in fairness, that maybe a little too much to expect from a spread invited to qoute for skiming a cieling & some walls. The ceiling/wall joints should generally be tapped (not always possible unless the both the walls & ceiling are being skimmed) but in my experience this can cause just as many problems as it's supposed to prevent in older properties.

2nd picture looks like movement between the flat & curved boards on the eaves; if there were cracks there originally & they weren’t properly repaired & tapped, they will reappear.

3rd picture looks like there was either some sort of tape applied at the top for some reason. are the ceilings more than 2.4m? The wall may have been previously boarded over & someone has stuck a small strip of PB along the top (which should have been at the bottom) & it has cracked along the join;

4th picture is similar problem to 2nd.

It’s difficult to analyse what’s gone wrong without a physical inspection of the ceiling, the joists & even the walls. The cracks are all due to differential movement between the walls & the ceiling & could be due to any one of a number of reasons or a combination of many. I won’t go into detail because I would just be guessing without having a proper look at everything but I do suspect there would have been previous evidence of the curved cileing cracks.

 

[armour]

Cheers for your input trowel monkey. No, there were no cracks before the plaster job. The ceiling was badly artexed though. As I've said, a month or so after the cracks were filled ( the plasterer made a big deal of having opened up the cracks and PVAd them) they've not opened up again so perhaps I'll get away with it. That's why I'm so concerned about getting a good tradesman this time.
I've just had the first quote - £350 for cash, I may sound a bit niaive, but is this the norm. I've just had 4 guys quote for replacing the boiler & the "no tax " thing was never aired! Anyway I wont be going with him - although he said he'd use screws for the plasterboard he complained that he'd rather use nails but it's an EEC ruling that screws have to be used.
I've got two more booked in for tomorrow - I'm determined to get someone organised before the weekend.

 

[roughcaster]

Cheers for your input trowel monkey. No, there were no cracks before the plaster job. The ceiling was badly artexed though. As I've said, a month or so after the cracks were filled ( the plasterer made a big deal of having opened up the cracks and PVAd them) they've not opened up again so perhaps I'll get away with it. That's why I'm so concerned about getting a good tradesman this time.
I've just had the first quote - £350 for cash, I may sound a bit niaive, but is this the norm. I've just had 4 guys quote for replacing the boiler & the "no tax " thing was never aired! Anyway I wont be going with him - although he said he'd use screws for the plasterboard he complained that he'd rather use nails but

it's an EEC ruling that screws have to be used.

I've got two more booked in for tomorrow - I'm determined to get someone organised before the weekend.

The EEC have been screwing us for years. bastard s.

Roughcaster.

 

[Alastairreid]

I've just had the first quote - £350 for cash, I may sound a bit niaive, but is this the norm.

its a small job and perfectly normal imo.

you can get an invoice and receipt, pay by cheque if you like but you will be charged more.

 

[Richard C]

I've just had the first quote - £350 for cash, I may sound a bit niaive, but is this the norm. I've just had 4 guys quote for replacing the boiler & the "no tax " thing was never aired!

Already said; it's gonna be charged to you @ 2 days for a loner which ever way you look at it, what price are you expecting I don’t think £450 is ripping you off in your area if you want the ceiling boarded & skimmed as well but I would have pitched a little lower @ £400, similar to TM (+ materials).

There is no guarantee that paying a high price will give you a good job &, unfortunately, there are many cowboys around. You should either go on personal recommendation or inspect some of their work if you can; but if you pays peanuts you definately WILL gets monkeys (using screws an EEC ruling ) ---- sorry TM, no offence intended. or, perhaps, the bloke that did your bathroom; & the CH/plumbers are even worse

 

[armour]

Thanks for your comments on the cracks Richard. The large crack on the ceiling (second pic) is in an area where the artex was particularly dodgy/had been repaired so point taken. I suppose I should have renewed the ceiling & maybe I'm being too hard on the plasterer - He did after all spend a couple of hours on a Sunday morning repairing the cracks.
A bit more advice, if you will guys;
In the corner of the kitchen ceiling there is a stone/concrete plinth type thing (Part of an old fireplace I think) with artex still on it. it sits slightly proud of the joists. Quoter No1 said he'd board up to the plinth and then make good & skim over - sounds reasonable to me. What do you think?

 

[Richard C]

In the corner of the kitchen ceiling there is a stone/concrete plinth type thing (Part of an old fireplace I think) with artex still on it. it sits slightly proud of the joists. Quoter No1 said he'd board up to the plinth and then make good & skim over - sounds reasonable to me. What do you think?

Not sure I fully understand what you’ve got; were talking dissimilar materials here (& different expansion/contraction rates); is he planning new boards up to the concrete plinth & then skim over the new boards & over old Artex plinth or is he planning to dab PB boards over the plinth, tape & skim the lot? A Photo would help.