Secondary Heat Exchanger - What to do?

[Jammy78]

Hi,

I've got an Ideal combi boiler (4 years old - newish build house).

I've also got BG homecare - problem started a year ago, with the hot water..... was hot for a few seconds & then when cold! BG carried out a "sonic flush" which solved the problem to now - it's happening again!

BG have told me the secondary heat exchange needs replacing as it's due to sludge (the sonic clean they did last year proves it).

They have told me I need:

1. secondary heat exchanger
2. magnetic filter
3. powerflush - then I will get a lifetime guarantee (only if I stay with the homecare insurance) against sludge, if not I only get 12 months.

Cost:

for 1 & 2 = £590
for 1,2 & 3 = £720

Issues - I don't really want a filter as it's going to take up a lot of room in my kitchen (it's already very small & will be on show under the cupboard)!

So if I have the exchanger replaced & powerflush, will this stop it happening again? I don't understand how sludge caused this, as it's only the hot water that is effected?

Need advice what's the best way to stop this happening again?

Cheers

 

[45yearsagasman]

The system debris collects in the primary side of the plate exchanger and blocks the already small waterways.I can only guess, but for your system to be like it is it may well not have had the correct flush and water treatment from new.How many new builds are like this I can only guess,but there are many that I have come across that had no treatment at all resulting in pinholed rads and rapid corrosion and other problems.
BG have given you good advice and as you say will give the system a lifetime cover.You will almost certainly get a cheaper quote but BG will not guarantee the work of a 3rd party.
The 3 items will give you a system that should work as it was designed to.
All that said the advice is sound but the price is what it is.Your choice.

 

[simond]

I think you have had good advice from the 45 yr gas man.

Generally speaking, a sealed system combi would struggle to create enough sludge to affect the 2nd HEX in the time you suggest.

The only plausible scenarios are that the original boiler was open vent and pumping over, or there has been a leak in the system which has needed regular refilling.

Either way, this looks like a fair option.

Your other option is to get a new boiler, such as a Worcester or Vaillant with a 5yr warranty, and make sure your chosen contractor carries out a diligent powerflush. (Cheapy installs are done in a mad rush and the system cleansing is the first thing to suffer, as I guess you now know only too well).

This will cost around £500 more than the BG repair, but will save you 5 years Homecare and get you a brand new boiler to boot, which should last 4 yrs longer than the one fitted to the wall now.

 

[mickyg]

If a powerflush is done properly and you have no other issues with the system then there's no need for the filter on a sealed system. Trouble is BG don't do powerlfushes very well, one of the reasons is that they don't use decent chemicals for environmental reasons. So as long as you stay on your homecare you can presumably keep getting free flushes every few years. Personally I'm with Simon, get shot of it, get a decent boiler with a long warranty, and when you take into account your homecare costs and this powerflush quote, you'll prob almost break even and have a decent boiler to boot.

 

[bengasman]

1. After a good powerflush, you don't need any filters.
2. If the powerflush can be done via the boiler pump, you don't need to do anything else to clean the secondary hex.
3. You don't need a new hex anyway, you can just clean them; labour stays the same but it saves you the price of the hex.
4. You've got a crap boiler anyway, now might be the time to replace it and deduct the repair cost of this piece of junk from the installation cost.

 

[ollski]

What ideal boiler is it??
Chemicals used in a bg flush at the moment are either x400 a week in advance or x800 on the day I believe.

 

[mickyg]

advance or x800 on the day I believe.

are they using x800 again? i remember they stopped using it cos it was apparently bad for the environment and they couldnt guarantee the engineers would send it to a foul drain. Maybe sentinel have rejigged the ingredients perhaps. I know they started using some salamander rubbish which was about as useful as fairy liquid, similar to x400 lol

 

[Blooflame]

The system debris collects in the primary side of the plate exchanger and blocks the already small waterways.I can only guess, but for your system to be like it is it may well not have had the correct flush and water treatment from new.How many new builds are like this I can only guess,but there are many that I have come across that had no treatment at all resulting in pinholed rads and rapid corrosion and other problems.
BG have given you good advice and as you say will give the system a lifetime cover.You will almost certainly get a cheaper quote but BG will not guarantee the work of a 3rd party.
The 3 items will give you a system that should work as it was designed to.
All that said the advice is sound but the price is what it is.Your choice.

If you feel you have to write on here for advice and can't trust the BG engineers, then you have to change you service company. Contrary to posts I've seen, the chemicals are Fernox, need not expand on that one. Yep it is costly but thats the deal for lifetime guarantees. If you check your terms and conditions, you'll see that IF you were told previous about sludge / scale (quoted), then you will have to pay for parts replaced. If you haven't been told before, then BG gotta do it but next time you'll pay. Is there plastic piping being used there? This increases sludge AND cannot be flushed!!

 

[ollski]

advance or x800 on the day I believe.

are they using x800 again? i remember they stopped using it cos it was apparently bad for the environment and they couldnt guarantee the engineers would send it to a foul drain. Maybe sentinel have rejigged the ingredients perhaps. I know they started using some salamander rubbish which was about as useful as fairy liquid, similar to x400 lol

Our lads use x800 micky but it varies from patch to patch, the guys can get the fernox and sentinel stuff off the ft or lpo it if they want something better. We still dose x400 1 week before flush due and they dose again on the day.....even had a new powerflush unit to replace the 12 year old ones!

 

[ollski]

Is there plastic piping being used there? This increases sludge AND cannot be flushed!!

All plastic pipe?, How and why?

 

[Jammy78]

It's a Ideal HE35 boiler! BG told me it's a pretty good boiler?

Getting a new one is really out of the question & if I did - & it was poorly fitted with sludge again.... I doubt the warranty would cover it!?

So if I get a power flush, I wouldn't need a filter - is this right?

 

[mickyg]

Our lads use x800 micky but it varies from patch to patch, the guys can get the fernox and sentinel stuff off the ft or lpo it if they want something better. We still dose x400 1 week before flush due and they dose again on the day.....even had a new powerflush unit to replace the 12 year old ones!

Prob since they started offering the lifetime guarantee they thought they better start doing it properly else it will cost em money lol

 

[mickyg]

It's a Ideal HE35 boiler! BG told me it's a pretty good boiler?

Getting a new one is really out of the question & if I did - & it was poorly fitted with sludge again.... I doubt the warranty would cover it!?

So if I get a power flush, I wouldn't need a filter - is this right?

the boiler is pants. and it won't get fitted poorly with sludge if the person doing it does a proper job, and no you don't need a filter if the flush is done properly.

 

[mickyg]

Is there plastic piping being used there? This increases sludge AND cannot be flushed!!

All plastic pipe?, How and why?

ditto. what ??

 

[bengasman]

It's a Ideal HE35 boiler! BG told me it's a pretty good boiler?

Bet you won't get that in writing.

So if I get a power flush, I wouldn't need a filter - is this right?

If you get a proper powerflush you don't need a filter; there is powerflusing and powerflushing. I re-did one last month, and the owner could not believe how much gunk I got out that the previous "pro" could not shift.