self certification

[kettle]

just a quick question please. if a qualified electrician does some work, extra sockets, lights etc, is it right that he can sign his own work off, or does he have to get it checked and signed off by some one else?

i ask because an electrician checked and passed some work he did for me, only for a fault to appear due to a mistake he had made.

surely he can miss the mistake twice(once when he wired it, and once when he checked it), where as if some one else checks it, the mistake should have been spotted.

he is qualified by the way.however i have no confidence in what he has done.

 

[Taylortwocities]

As a first question, can you describe what the work was and what location it was done (eg: kitchen, lounge, garage, etc).

The electrician will carry out the work and (usually) will sign a CERTIFICATE that details what work was done, gives details of the tests carried out (and the results). It also confirms that the work done complied with a particular standard (BS7671, usually).

Usually he signs this certificate himself. There is a more complicated certificate where different people are responsible for different bits (Design, installation & testing). In this case each person signs their bit.

As well as this, all work now has to comply with Building Regulations. Among other things, Part P relates to safety. Some electrical work has to be notified to the local authority. It depends on what has been done and where. Hence my earlier question.

 

[Albert]

simple answer to your question is YES but! only if he is registered with a "competent persons scheme", (NAPIT, NICEIC, ECA...etc.)

Every job done by an electrician has to follow with a certificate, if the work does not include a new circuit it will be enough to provide you with a "Minor works certificate".

Another aspect is notifying the council, the notification depends on the type of the job and the place (as mentioned). You can notify a minor works if the work was done in a special location or kitchen etc.

 

[nozspark]

What was the fault that he missed???


We all do make mistakes from time to time you know

 

[Taylortwocities]

simple answer to your question is YES but! only if he is registered with a "competent persons scheme", (NAPIT, NICEIC, ECA...etc.)

That is not correct! The OP only asked about certification.
Anybody, registered or not, can certify electrical work.
What you are doing is carrying out work, carrying out tests, recording the results and confirming that the work complies with a standard. It is expected that the person should be competent to do this but dont have to be a member of anything.

Notification is a different matter, but the OP has not asked about that, yet.

 

[Albert]

You have to be competent in test and inspection C&G 2360 or equivalent does not do that. How do you show competence in test and inspection?
It sounds like anyone can sign a certificate, which I am not sure about.

Obviously notifiable jobs can be done by informing the council or you have to be a member of a competent persons scheme. This job is notifiable.

 

[dingbat]

You have to be competent in test and inspection C&G 2360 or equivalent does not do that. How do you show competence in test and inspection?
It sounds like anyone can sign a certificate, which I am not sure about.

Albert, the only requirement is that you are competent.

See the definition in Part 2 of the regs and reg 16 of EAWR 1989.

Competence involves having the required knowledge, experience and skill and whilst these may be acquired without instruction, you would expect those plying a trade to carry some actual qualifications.

(That doesn't mean, however, that they will automatically be competent, of course. Sadly, many 'electricians' understand little about the technical aspects of their chosen field.)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You have to be competent in test and inspection C&G 2360 or equivalent does not do that. How do you show competence in test and inspection?
It sounds like anyone can sign a certificate, which I am not sure about.

Anyone may sign a certificate (which is not quite the same), as there are no legally enforceable requirements for qualifications.

This job is notifiable.

How do you know that?

 

[Albert]

How do you know that?

Sorry, I do not know why I had in mind that it was about an external socket in a shed and rewire of a detached shed...

 

[scarypants]

Extra Socket/light etc...
If addition to existing circuit does not need to be notified as long as it is not in a special location, but does need Minor works cert!
SPS

 

[kettle1]

thanks for the replies. the work was putting sockets on the place where storage heaters were and a couple of extra lights. the problem was what was thought to be one ring, so when a rcd? was turned off, there were still live sockets. turned out to be two rings, but not complete rings, so more like two long single wires(in two rcd's) with sockets on them (hope you understand what i mean)
i was also told that some of the old wires in the house were dead, turned out they werent. god bless my voltage stick!!

I did a level 2 nvq plumbing course a few years ago , and one of the things that came up was the 'competent' question. my understanding was that in order to be deemed competent, you had to do and pass a course in whatever field you were working in.( i did the unvented course)

In the past, i have put in rings, changed sockets,light etc and had them checked by a mate who is a time served spark, and he has always said my work is to a good,safe standard. after watching the chap do my work, i would have said my work is better than this qualified person.but as i havent passed the 'learning' to be a spark, i cant do it any more (part p etc)

 

[scarypants]

Kettle,
You can do any diy electrical work on your own supply, in your house you wish. No law against it!
But it has to comply to BS7671 and Approved Document P of Building Regulations and mostly notified, not all. Addition and extensions to existing circuits okay providing it complies to BS7671 and not in special locations plus Kitchens. Minor works cert will be required, so that's the tough one to get round, if you have no knowledge of inspecting, testing, meter use and readings plus form/report filling.
It's amazing that you have had a sparks in and he has not picked up on a divided ring final.
SPS

 

[Taylortwocities]

Hi Kettle,
I don't want to rain on your level of competence, and with the greatest respect I suspect that you aren't as competent as you think.

eg in your post above you referred to the ring being in two RCDs.
That isn't possible - you surely mean MCBs?? If you don't get that right, I wonder just how 'competent' your other electrical work might be?

It isn't as easy as it looks is it? ( A bit like plumbing)

 

[JonoPashley]

You have to be competent in test and inspection C&G 2360 or equivalent does not do that. How do you show competence in test and inspection?
It sounds like anyone can sign a certificate, which I am not sure about.

Obviously notifiable jobs can be done by informing the council or you have to be a member of a competent persons scheme. This job is notifiable.

You obviously have very little knowledge of the content of the 2330 course cant speak for 2360 but in level 2 of 2330 you have to demonstrate basic testing and inspecting skills while on level 3 there are 2 large practical assessments based around testing, inspecting, verification, fault finding and rectification. While not as deep as 2391, you still have to have a solid knowledge of how to do the tasks.

 

[kettle1]

Hi Kettle,
I don't want to rain on your level of competence, and with the greatest respect I suspect that you aren't as competent as you think.

eg in your post above you referred to the ring being in two RCDs.
That isn't possible - you surely mean MCBs?? If you don't get that right, I wonder just how 'competent' your other electrical work might be?

It isn't as easy as it looks is it? ( A bit like plumbing)

yup, got that wrong there.MCB it is. if you look in my previous post, i did put a question mark next to rcd as for the life of me i couldnt remember mcb.LLOOLL

i never used to connect into the cu, my mate did that for me.and as i said, i dont do it any more as i dont have 'the learning', or the time.

with regards to my other work,it was, as i say, checked and passed satisfactory. and i NEVER EVER left a live wire and told someone they were not live. these new fangled mcbs are supposed to trip out in a few miliseconds. had i not checked the wires before i cut them to get them out of the way,(to run pipework) i am guessing i would have found out just how many miliseconds.cant say that i want to be connected to the national grid for even 1 milisecond.

if there were any old wiring left after i had finished, i ALWAYS removed it.even if it was a pain to do, no way for it to be mistakenly connected then.