self defeating chillers? in this weather?

[Steve]

Shop im working at at the mo has just installed self-defeating chillers. Let me explain.

Before scenario: all chillers and freezers are connected to outside compressors and coolers. Only pop fridge and impulse chiller have built in compressor. Result = cool shop floor, no need for air con.

The other day, about half of the old chillers were removed and replaced with new open-front units with built in compressors (about 5 there). Also, some bright spark bought us a great big 9 foot tall, 10 foot wide open front beer chiller, which has 2 compressors built in, each needing a 20amp supply. Result = warmer shop floor, ambient about 25 degrees now. With this weather, its about 28 degrees. WAY too hot to work.

Anyway, a guy from peak refrigeration came today to change some bulbs in the freezers and generally tidy up the chiller units (we are having a major re-fit). I said to him "that new chiller by the front door hasn't seen the low side of 12 degrees today, cos the front door is open and warm air is blowing at it and the compresor is constantly on". He sez "what do you want me to do? These units are only designed to cool when ambient is below 25".

Then i asked him why they couldnt get chillers that would connect to the outside plant, and he said it would cost more. How???? The plant is already there. Refrigerant lines are already there from old chillers. Surely new chillers minus compressor are cheaper than new chillers with compressor? Yes, more work for fridge people connecting it up and testing, but less work for sparks, possibly less energy consuption. COOLER SHOP FLOOR.

Let me recap. It is the fault of these new chillers that the ambient temp is above 25 degrees. Yet they cannot cool when this occurs. And some brainbox at head office has done some calcs and decided we WONT need air conditioning when refit is complete. Personally i would like to make him do real work in 30 degrees heat, see how long he lasts. All our staff are complaining, on the verge of walking out. Its a joke. Even the area manager visited today and said it was too warm. Next sentence, "thats how its gonna be im afraid". Felt like slapping him. This is a store that takes £36000 a week. Stores that take less than half this amount have 2-3 air con units!

Anyone know average cost for supply and fit 3-4 cassette air con units into false ceiling, and fitting outside units and all associated pipework??? I dont want to go to work tomorrow

 

[AdamW]

Unfortunately, there is no maximum temperature for work (unlike minimum temperature).

They probably put the chillers in on the principle that your main, ambient aircon will take the heat away. Cheap for the designers, not cheap on electricity bills. Nice of them to check if your aircon units could take away the extra few kW of heat, eh!

Is this an offy or a supermarket? I have noticed that modern supermarkets have impressive airconditioning, even when it is 30+ it is a nice cool 21 or so in there. My local offy is even more powerful, it's like a big beer fridge!

I would say that your best bet is to get the store manager on your side, get a quote to fit plumbed units and work out the reduction in running costs. I would give it a 5% chance of succeding, but if you get paid sick leave and free beverages you can always point to that as a possible cost reduction. A perfect working environment is better than 28 degrees and less likely to lead to dehydration and thus less Gatorade gets drunk and less people being sick.

 

[petewood]

Take time off, tell them you have heatstroke!

 

[confidentincompetent]

tell prescott about it!!
He'll make em put a combi in as well to save energy

 

[pipme]

Have to drive 120 miles and sit in an extremely hot hall at a large presentation tomorrow... Air-con driving is fine (and how!!) but sitting indoors in this heat is not nice ... No air moving ... But tis still fab at 5-00 am, although a little early for the poor lambs of the 24 hr life TB thinks we are all into -- apart from himself and about 59 million grockles of course.

 

[felix]

AdamW wrote:

Unfortunately, there is no maximum temperature for work

Maybe not in law but there certainly is in practice. It's 37 deg C on a wet bulb thermometer.

At the other end of the scale, I once knew a welder at a shipyard who told us how he had to work in freezing temperatures. I pointed out that there was a minimum legal temperature for factories but he shook his head. "The stingy gits got round that one. They took the end off the shed!"

 

[Steve]

there is NO air con, and its a big **-** late shop. We dont know from one day to the next whats going on with the refurb, head office and the development team are in charge of it all, even the store manager didnt know when the fridge people or shopfitters or decorators were coming. Its one long farce.

All the other late shops i have worked in have had air con, nice modern units. The area manager came today and said it is too hot. he was sweating without even doin any work, just walking around, so the signs are promising. only problem i see is there is only about 20cm between false ceiling and real ceiling, so they will have to lower parts of the ceiling when (IF) they fit it.

 

[AdamW]

There is one bonus to all this... I'm not sure you'll want to hear it though.

Every morning, I get up in my air-conditioned flat (only a portable, but I think I will consider a plant when I move up market!). I head out to work in my air-conditioned car. I sit in my air-conditioned office until lunchtime. Sometimes, I'll head out to an air-conditioned restaurant where I eat with my friends. In the evening, I leave my air-conditioned office and go to my air-conditioned gym. I might stop by at the air-conditioned supermarket on the way home to my air-conditioned flat.

Do you see where I am going here? I spend most of my time at 20-21 celsius and 45-55% relative humidity. That doesn't sound bad. But when I find myself in a natural environment, it hits me a lot harder than it used to!

Until I was 18, the only time I encountered air-conditioning was on a plane. But I could go out on a 32-degree summer's day for more than 5-minutes without the back of my shirt looking like I had been lying in a puddle (I've tried telling people it's a mirage )

I really only use air-con to reduce the humidity, I love a bit of heat. But it really does turn you into an environmentally mal-adjusted pansy.

 

[Steve]

Every morning, I get up in my air-conditioned flat (only a portable, but I think I will consider a plant when I move up market!). I head out to work in my air-conditioned car. I sit in my air-conditioned office until lunchtime. Sometimes, I'll head out to an air-conditioned restaurant where I eat with my friends. In the evening, I leave my air-conditioned office and go to my air-conditioned gym. I might stop by at the air-conditioned supermarket on the way home to my air-conditioned flat.

im so jealous!

 

[AdamW]

im so jealous!

I heard it's got so hot in Yorkshire this summer that the permafrost is thawing

 

[Steve]

lol one good thing we have at the shop im at with no air con, is coldrooms! we have a coldroom at 4 degrees and a coldroom at -17 degrees its heaven to step into the 4 degree one and stand in front of the cooler while drinking a nice cold . . . . . mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. [/quote]

 

[PTH]

Crafty - I am guessing, but the reason that self contained chillers have been installed is probably to do with the refrigerant. If the original system is more than say 5 years old, it is likely to have R22 in it. No modern kit is made for R22 anymore, it's all R410A or 407C (zero ozone depletion potential, zero global warming). In a few years time it will probably all change again with propane blend being used or some new wonder-goo. Of course, the proper solution would be to replace the complete plant, but, as you say it would cost more than the owners want to take from the profits.

What is amusing me at the moment is the big sheds and other shops selling 'portable air conditioners' the cheaper ones don't even have an exhaust connection so all the cold air coming out of the front is totally negated by thee hot air coming out of the back! People still seem to be buying them, though.

 

[AdamW]

lol one good thing we have at the shop im at with no air con, is coldrooms! we have a coldroom at 4 degrees and a coldroom at -17 degrees its heaven to step into the 4 degree one and stand in front of the cooler while drinking a nice cold . . . . . mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[/quote]

I spent a couple of summers working in a restaurant. One of my jobs was showing new staff the ropes. I once was a little naughty and spent a good few minutes showing a rather "healthy" new waitress where absolutely everything in the coldrooms was... can I say peanuts?

 

[securespark]

Should have encouraged Charlie Dimmock to step inside, too!!

Woohoo!

 

[AdamW]

There's only so far you can look downwards before it becomes obvious... Swing Low, Sweet Dimmock's t*ts...