Have any of the self employed people on here had a letter from the IR saying CIS4 to stop next year? I have. Im a sub contract bricky, and me, nor none of my colleagues know where this will lead. Does it mean we all have to go PAYE on reduced rates etc, with holiday pay from 2007 on? Does anyone know where this will lead?
Self Employed to stop 2007?
- Thread starter tawelfryn
- Start date
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some time back about 10 yrs ago? they were phasing out the 714 cheque book scheme i was one of the last to be granted one and was told by the Inland Revenue that it had about 5 months to still be valid a meeting was called amongst all the self employed subbing to the contractor whose books i was on at the time and there was an official from the IL answering questions basically he said that if you work for any particular company more than a few times then they in effect employ you and if you wished not to go PAYE the only option was to set up as a company and have a partner in directorship. We were under the impression then that all self employed would be phased out but we are here 10 yrs later still going on so i wonder if this is a ploy like last time to make self employed people more accountable ie to phase out cash in hand transactions?
Hi,
It sounds very similar to the way they screwed IT Contractors over with the IR35 regulations a few years ago
A lot of guys i know were forced into the PAYE route as opposed to the basic salary + dividend route.
Jon.
It sounds very similar to the way they screwed IT Contractors over with the IR35 regulations a few years ago
A lot of guys i know were forced into the PAYE route as opposed to the basic salary + dividend route.
Jon.
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JonD said:Hi,
It sounds very similar to the way they screwed IT Contractors over with the IR35 regulations a few years ago
A lot of guys i know were forced into the PAYE route as opposed to the basic salary + dividend route.
Jon.
That's because it was often disguised employment, in some ways. I was on a contract continuously for 18 years and was one of the longest in the department.
tawelfryn said:
BAsically,what the taxman is saying,is who ever you are subbing to has to contact the IL to find out how much tax should be deducted off you ,so as far as I see it there will not be a fixed rate deduction ,but a deduction based on what you might owe or not owe.
AS the NIand IL are part of the same department ,I suspect they will also get any NI owed back this way.
Also ,even people with a CIS4 card are entitled to holiday pay and I do know serveral people that have sucsessfully taken contractors to court for outstanding holiday pay,saddely they would not exspect to be employed by these contractors again because of making these claims against them
Thanks for your thoughts guys
What I mean is with our hourly rate just being deducted 18% at the moment. If we had to go on PAYE then with the added expense of paying us "Holiday pay" (is it 21 days? or something like that) and also our employer having to fork out National Insurance as well I can see the rate being reduced to compensate, added to the fact that then we would be deducted 21% tax, and then our 11% NI (i think its that) on top, all in all making our total net pay drastically reduced.
At the moment I am working for a contractor paying an hourly rate, we don't have "holiday pay" at the moment, they are saying "its all in with your hourly rate" I have been told this is illegal as Splinter says, CIS4 card holders are entitled to holiday pay.
Incidentally, how would PAYE work when we go on "pricework" where our earnings vary from one week to the next.
I can see a lot of unhappy tradesmen next year if it does go to this, and unless the rates are raised to compensate, many I feel would leave.
A reduced rate at paye on site would for example be hardly anymore than other "less demanding jobs"
What I mean is with our hourly rate just being deducted 18% at the moment. If we had to go on PAYE then with the added expense of paying us "Holiday pay" (is it 21 days? or something like that) and also our employer having to fork out National Insurance as well I can see the rate being reduced to compensate, added to the fact that then we would be deducted 21% tax, and then our 11% NI (i think its that) on top, all in all making our total net pay drastically reduced.
At the moment I am working for a contractor paying an hourly rate, we don't have "holiday pay" at the moment, they are saying "its all in with your hourly rate" I have been told this is illegal as Splinter says, CIS4 card holders are entitled to holiday pay.
Incidentally, how would PAYE work when we go on "pricework" where our earnings vary from one week to the next.
I can see a lot of unhappy tradesmen next year if it does go to this, and unless the rates are raised to compensate, many I feel would leave.
A reduced rate at paye on site would for example be hardly anymore than other "less demanding jobs"
kendor said:
this is how ive heard it going back to.
splinter Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 12:46 pm Post Subject: Re: Self Employed to stop 2007?
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tawelfryn wrote:
Have any of the self employed people on here had a letter from the IR saying CIS4 to stop next year? I have. Im a sub contract bricky, and me, nor none of my colleagues know where this will lead. Does it mean we all have to go PAYE on reduced rates etc, with holiday pay from 2007 on? Does anyone know where this will lead?
BAsically,what the taxman is saying,is who ever you are subbing to has to contact the IL to find out how much tax should be deducted off you ,so as far as I see it there will not be a fixed rate deduction ,but a deduction based on what you might owe or not owe.
AS the NIand IL are part of the same department ,I suspect they will also get any NI owed back this way.
Also ,even people with a CIS4 card are entitled to holiday pay and I do know serveral people that have sucsessfully taken contractors to court for outstanding holiday pay,saddely they would not exspect to be employed by these contractors again because of making these claims against them
most firms now will make you sign your holidays away before they employ you on a price or not, some paid £2 a metre for skim put it upto £2.10 ametre and hold the 10p back for your hols, crafty or what
Regarding holiday pay.I read a peice on the UCATT website and what it says there is everyone is entitled to holiday payfrom the day you start working for someone irrealavate of what they try to get you to sign
As per usual some contractors are relying on divide and rule which has always opperated in the building industry.
THe best way I have found to get my holiday pay is wait until my contract has come to a end.Then decide weither I am ever likely to or want to work for said contractor again ,IF the answer is NO then I get my union rep to give them a ring ,to explain my legal rights to holiday pay .Not the most ideal way ,but there you go
As per usual some contractors are relying on divide and rule which has always opperated in the building industry.
THe best way I have found to get my holiday pay is wait until my contract has come to a end.Then decide weither I am ever likely to or want to work for said contractor again ,IF the answer is NO then I get my union rep to give them a ring ,to explain my legal rights to holiday pay .Not the most ideal way ,but there you go
splinter said:
where do i get one of these
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