Selling house, wiring issues.

[davecooper]

I need some help fairly quickly here so here's hoping. I am in the process of selling a house which is, unfortunately, over 200 miles from me, so doing most of it by email, post and phone. We are due to complete on Friday and I am going up to Scotland to sign the deeds then.

Today, out of the blue, I received an email from my Solicitor to say that the buyer has had an electrical inspection carried out and they have identified some wiring issues for which I am liable. Apparently, according to the contract, they can do this up to 5 days before completion so they are right on the limit which makes me suspicious. I have obviously not been able to look at these issues for myself yet. (I am a marine electrical engineer myself so I could verify these issues if I was at the house)

I was sent a copy of the report and the areas the inspecting electrician noted as being safety related and requiring immediate attention were as follows:

1. No bond onto water pipe.
2. Bond onto gas pipe >600mm from isolator
3. IP rating of distribution box does not comply. (installed since 2002?)
4. No sleeving on wires at light switches.
5. No earth link to back boxes of accessories.
6. Scotting Power earth cable needs uprating from 6mm to 16mm (is this my responsibility?)
7. Tails to consumer unit not protected by rubber grommet.

The clauses in the contract that pertain to the electrical wiring make no mention of safety, just that it should be in working order. In addition, the contract states that the fact that the installation does not comply with current legislation shall not be deemed a defect! The house was built in 1980 so the electrics would, I imagine be installed to the 14th edition regs.

However, in the interests of safety, and considering it is a lone woman buying the house, I am fully prepared to put right the issues stated. However, I can see the possibilty of problems arising. The contract states that if I do not get the identified remedial work carried out myself before 5 days to completion, the buyer is allowed to get it done themselves and bill me for it. As I was only made aware of these issues 5 days before completion, this cannot be done and I do, (perhaps unfairly) suspect some hidden agenda on the buyers behalf.

If it does come to anything other than an amicable sale, I want to be fully in possession of all the facts and info I can get. Sorry about the long letter but any help on any of the matters above would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I share your suspicions.

In your shoes, even if it cost me money, even if everyone thought I was cutting off my nose to spite my face, I would tell the buyer to FOAD. Because I would be reasonably confident of a softening of her attitude given her investment so far (time and emotion even if not many ££). For all you know it could be a catastrophe for her to lose the purchase at this stage.

 

[OwainDIYer]

There are two issues here - what defects are safety-related, and what defects you are liable for under the contract of sale for the house. Your solicitor should advise you on the latter.

1. No bond onto water pipe -- this should be rectified
2. Bond onto gas pipe >600mm from isolator how far is it from the isolator and does it comply with Gas Safe requirements
3. IP rating of distribution box does not comply. (installed since 2002?) probably some tatty cutting out where the cables enter.
4. No sleeving on wires at light switches. assuming this is a coloured sleeve on the switched live, not safety related as both phase and neutral are considered to be 'live' conductors
5. No earth link to back boxes of accessories. not needed as long as there is one fixed lug
6. Scotting Power earth cable needs uprating from 6mm to 16mm (is this my responsibility?) Yes if it's the wire from the main earthing terminal to your consumer unit.
7. Tails to consumer unit not protected by rubber grommet. is it a metal consumer unit?

The terms of contract requiring you to repair wiring defects seems to me to be very unusual - were they in the buyer's offer and why did your solicitor allow this clause to make it into the concluded missives?

 

[rules&rulers]

Dont worry about it,if 10 different electricians inspected your property they would come back with 10 very different reports.
Tell the solicitor thats how it was installed in 1980 and during your use there has been no problems maybe come to an agreement to knock off some money say £260 for a good will one off payment only.

Hidden agenda very much so sorry to say,they know you are not there to supervise inspections.has the buyer had an inspection of the heating system,structure,glass,drains,roof etc if so expect more woes. Its just a way for the buyer to reduce the purchase price.

Their 5 day rule is totally unreasonable (tell then that) maybe ask for an extension of time if you want to correct the defects,some defects may be down to the supply company so give them notice.

Sorry to hear your being xxxxed about.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have obviously not been able to look at these issues for myself yet. (I am a marine electrical engineer myself so I could verify these issues if I was at the house)

You should work on the basis that all the issues are as stated. Except, of course, the person who did the report has listed "issues" which are nothing of the sort. Are you sure he was actually a real electrician, and not a "surveyor"?

The clauses in the contract that pertain to the electrical wiring make no mention of safety, just that it should be in working order.

There you are then. Make sure the buyer and her solicitor are left in no doubt that you will be like a rabid pitbull with piles on this. Working is what ot has to be, and working is what it is, and from your POV hell will freeze over before you pay a penny out for things for which you are not contractually liable.

I was sent a copy of the report and the areas the inspecting electrician noted as being safety related and requiring immediate attention were as follows:

But the contract has no requirements wrt safety?

1. No bond onto water pipe.
2. Bond onto gas pipe >600mm from isolator
3. IP rating of distribution box does not comply. (installed since 2002?)
4. No sleeving on wires at light switches.
5. No earth link to back boxes of accessories.
6. Scotting Power earth cable needs uprating from 6mm to 16mm (is this my responsibility?)
7. Tails to consumer unit not protected by rubber grommet.

1. May not be needed - if it is it really should be done, and it could be argued (dubiously) that not having it might mean "not working order" if the working of safety devices is concerned, but it would be clutching at straws.
2. Doesn't have to be. And has absolutely no bearing on whether the installation is in working order.
3. Has absolutely no bearing on whether the installation is in working order.
4. Has absolutely no bearing on whether the installation is in working order.
5. There don't have to be any - back boxes are not exposed conductive parts. And has absolutely no bearing on whether the installation is in working order.
6. No, it is not your responsibility, it is not within the scope of the regulations which apply to the installation, and it is not for the inspecting electrician to comment on it because the size is the decision of Scottish Power.
7. They don't have to be. And has absolutely no bearing on whether the installation is in working order.

She is trying to stitch you up - the next thing is that she'll stiff you with some huge bill for work which is not necessary and for which you are not liable.

However, in the interests of safety, and considering it is a lone woman buying the house, I am fully prepared to put right the issues stated.

Don't be.

The contract states that if I do not get the identified remedial work carried out myself before 5 days to completion, the buyer is allowed to get it done themselves and bill me for it.

How can the contract say that if it only requires you to carry out remedial work related to working order and the report identifies (wrongly) these points as safety related and not functional?

 

[rules&rulers]

seems the inspection was visual only,has the inspection person given a quote ?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

6. Scotting Power earth cable needs uprating from 6mm to 16mm (is this my responsibility?) Yes if it's the wire from the main earthing terminal to your consumer unit.

I took that to mean that it is the supplier earth cable. Their responsibility.

But given the rest of the bullshit this inspector has come up with we cannot be sure that 6mm² isn't absolutely fine.

 

[endecotp]

Yes Scottish house contracts do include terms like this. Something like £17,000 was retained when I bought my flat to cover work to the roof that the seller should have done! That was based on an estimate by a surveyor, but when the actual cost was much less the balance was returned to the seller.

Take your solicitor's advice, not what random strangers on the internet tell you.

Personally I'd offer them £100 off. If they don't agree, say "you get it done and send me the bill" (which your solicitor will handle for you, by retaining an amount to cover it). They will be obliged to do this in a reasonably economic way - perhaps not by getting 3 quotes and choosing the lowest, but certainly the respective solicitors will tell them they can't be unreasonable.

I wouldn't try arguing that the "in working order" terms don't cover this, beacuse at least the first item on your list is reasonably serious.

 

[EFLImpudence]

beacuse at least the first item on your list is reasonably serious.

May be plastic - we don't know.


Is it the case that only houses in perfect order can be sold in Scotland?

If not - the price is for as it is.

 

[endecotp]

Is it the case that only houses in perfect order can be sold in Scotland?

You can buy or sell anything, but there are standard contract clauses that conveyancing solicitors use unless you instruct them otherwise: http://www.lawscot.org.uk/rules-and...ce-and-information/scottish-standard-clauses/

This is from the "client guide" on that page:

 

[EFLImpudence]

4.4 would seem to cover the OP's situation.

 

[endecotp]

Apart from the possibility of a plastic pipe, I don't think that the lack of an earth connection to the water supply could be considered "commensurate with age" or "lack of maintenance" for a property built in 1980. Some of the other points are more dubious but this one makes me think that something will have to be done. Arguing point-by-point about the list of defects will require that he gets his own equally-qualified electrician to do a report, and that could cost more than just fixing everything - or offering a small discount.

 

[aptsys]

Apart from the possibility of a plastic pipe, I don't think that the lack of an earth connection to the water supply could be considered "commensurate with age" or "lack of maintenance" for a property built in 1980. Some of the other points are more dubious but this one makes me think that something will have to be done. Arguing point-by-point about the list of defects will require that he gets his own equally-qualified electrician to do a report, and that could cost more than just fixing everything - or offering a small discount.

1980's property almost certainly has a plastic supply pipe.

I agree with BAS, tell them to sod off.

Point 5 (5. No earth link to back boxes of accessories) makes me think this guy was after work and is using the situation to his advantage.

 

[davecooper]

The company that did the inspection appears to be a registered NIC IEC contractor. I will be ringing the solicitor this morning so may have an update later. I don't want to come across as paranoid over this, like I said, I am willing to make the installation compliant from a safety point of view before the buyer moves in. It just seems a bit convenient that my solicitor was informed of this exactly 5 working days, almost to the hour, before we were due to complete on the house.

 

[davecooper]

The solicitor has said there is not a lot he can do until he receives the quote. However, he says that the buyers quote is not binding as such and if we feel it is excessive, we can ask for our own independent quote. Am I basically looking at a few hundred quid here at worst?