sentinel x200 and x100 have i done it right?

[maltyke53]

I have a baxi bermuda fire and back boiler which is getting very noisy when i put the central heating on.
I get the kettling sound i have heard mentioned on the forum.
Anyway i bought some sentinel x100 and 200 and understood you could put it in the small tank in the loft( not the main clean water one)
There was a bit of crap in the small tank so i gave it a good clean and tied up the ballcock to prevent refilling.
I then added both bottles of sentinel then started the ch up and untied the ballcock to let the tank fill again.
Have i done this correctly or should i have drained off some water from the system ie the rads?
How often will the water from the header tank get into the system, does it circulate or will it just sit in there.
When i emptied the tank and put the sentinel in some did drain away into the system but not all of it.

 

[Whitespirit66]

It's best to drain some water out of the system after cleaning and emptying tank, before introducing fluids. If some of the Sentinel is in the feed pipe , when the ch is on, expansion will move it back up into tank.

I would tie the float valve up, open the drain cock until the contents of the tank have gone down into system (stop draining as soon as tank empties), then untie float and let tank re-fill.

At the moment, I imagine most of the sentinel is in the tank. I always pour inhibitors/ cleaners into tank, then fill system after.

 

[maltyke53]

Hi whitespirit66,
if i tie up the ballcock so the tank and its contents drain away it could take hours if not days.
I suspose it depends on how fast the central heating system uses the water from the tank when the central heating is running.
Best thing i can do is tie up the ballcock when i know ill be in all day and keep checking the tank every hour or so and see how much the tank as drained.
once its almost emptied the tank ill release the ballcock and let the tank fill again.
Many thanks for your reply.

 

[JohnD]

I suspose it depends on how fast the central heating system uses the water from the tank when the central heating is running.

this is insane

A CH system does not "use the water up".

if the level drops it will be because there is a leak.

 

[Whitespirit66]

Hi whitespirit66,
if i tie up the ballcock so the tank and its contents drain away it could take hours if not days.
I suspose it depends on how fast the central heating system uses the water from the tank when the central heating is running.
Best thing i can do is tie up the ballcock when i know ill be in all day and keep checking the tank every hour or so and see how much the tank as drained.
once its almost emptied the tank ill release the ballcock and let the tank fill again.
Many thanks for your reply.

As said, your system doesn't use the water.

At present, most of the Sentinel will be sitting in the tank. You don't want it there, because apart from a bit of the water from the system expanding up the feed pipe when the system is on, that water really doesn't go anywhere. It will remain in the tank, rising and falling slightly, as the system heats and cools.

To get the water in the tank, together with the chemicals you added to it, where it's needed into the system, you need to drain enough water out of the bottom of the system to allow the tank's contents to drain down. Tie the float valve up, and drain enough out of the ch system's drain cock to allow the contents of tank to disappear into system. No more. This is probably a 2 man job to watch tank whilst draining. Then untie float valve, and let tank fill.

Did you empty the system, or just the tank, before you put chemicals in?

 

[maltyke53]

I just emptied the tank Whitespirit66.
I was thinking about draining some of the system to allow the tank to drain away.
Ive had the ballcock tied up and in a week the tank contents have only dropped about a quarter of an inch.
After boxing day ill drain inough out of the system so the tank drains away.
John D, i realise now that the CH system doesent use any water up.
At £40 a shot its not cheap .

 

[oph]

I suspose it depends on how fast the central heating system uses the water from the tank when the central heating is running.

this is insane

A CH system does not "use the water up".

if the level drops it will be because there is a leak.

A feed and expansion cistern serves the heating system for three reasons.
1. To initially fill the system
2. To allow or expansion
3. To keep the system topped up.

A 4 pipe system ( gravity hot water with pumped central heating ) contents will evaporate from the aforementioned cistern given enough time if the ballcock is stuck in the upright position .
See it all the time

 

[maltyke53]

Well i drained the system till the header tank was empty and 2 weeks later it does seem to be a tad quieter.
Not sure how quiet i can expect from an old back boiler system.

 

[JohnD]

it has probably got old black sludge in it as well. X400 or another cleaner would have helped that wash away (it has to be drained out). The X200 works on residual limescale, and is not drained out.

 

[HH1]

I would tie the float valve up, open the drain cock until the contents of the tank have gone down into system (stop draining as soon as tank empties), then untie float and let tank re-fill.

You will have to empty a lot more water than just the water contained within the expansion tank (and also within the expansion pipe).
The chemicals probably will get through the complete system but will take a while to leach in the the main circulation.

Would have been better to not only empty the expansion tank but also to empty one of the radiators, this gives the necessary space for the new chemicals to get into the system.
It's also better to add the chemicals into the radiator itself as the expansion tank pipe will probably be on the side of the tank and not the bottom (allows chemical to sit at the bottom of the tank before going down the expansion pipe).
Lock the radiator "in" by shutting the in/out valves, crack open the fitting at the radiator, not on the "live" side of the valves you just closed, and drain into suitable containers.
The best method is to try and find the system drain cock, these can be difficult to locate sometimes and can be under the floorboards in some cases. There can be more than one. They should drain to outside the house. Sometimes the radiator itself has a fitting on it that you can attach a hose to, and drain it from there.
Could remove the plug from the top of the rad and use whatever funnel type arrangement to introduce the liquids directly into the rad, this gets the chemicals into the system straight away.
Now refill the system. The chemicals will be circulated and mixed from there as long as the radiator was working before. You may have to bleed as you have introduced some air into the system.

If going to the trouble again, and as JohnD points out (helpful posts JohnD ) best to clean the system first. If using the X400 product, once it has been introduced, and can be left in the system for a number of weeks, it has to be completely removed which necessitates a full drain down and possibly a flush out (not power flush), the main point is that the x400 needs to be out of the system before adding the X100 / X200.

 

[maltyke53]

Thanks for the info, when i drained the top tank by connecting a hose to a radiator and running it outside all the water that came out was crystal clear.
We did have the system cleaned out and drained a few years back and a inhibiter put in.
It is getting quieter and the kettling noise seems to have gone now so maybe its working?
Your feedback on here is top notch.

 

[LukeMc84]

I've recently emptied my system after circulating sentinel x400. The packaging says "thoroughly flush through ALL drain points". I checked all of the radiators and found only one drain point, emptied out the system, let it fill and emptied it again. When I went to switch the boiler back on I noticed what looks like another drain point just above the boiler. Is it a problem that I didn't empty the system through "ALL drain points"? Do I need to empty it again?

FYI: the CH system is a boilermate II

Thanks,
Luke

 

[JohnD]

Have you put the X100 in yet? If not, there would be no cost (just your time) in giving it an extra rinse and drain. You can let the system run for a few days anyway, with the pump running, so that any residual loosened sludge has a chance to be moved around and drain out.

I am assuming you have not fitted a system filter yet.

 

[LukeMc84]

No, I thought I'd wait for a response before putting in the x100.

I didn't realise that a filter would be needed/useful. There wasn't really any 'sludge' when I rinsed the system the first time, just dirty water. The rise was a precaution rather than an attempt to fix a problem as the system is about 10 yrs old now. Does this make any difference? Would you suggest a filter and if so what do I need / how do I fit it?

Thanks for your time!

Luke

 

[JohnD]

what colour was the drained water?