"servicing" a Britony II T

[wetfeet]

(This is a multipoint instantaneous water heater!)

A few years back a registered gas installer replaced the diaphragm because the heater stopped kicking in, so no hot water. It had a big hole in it. He did a general service (I think). I mentioned that it also seemed odd that we'd always needed to run the hot tap near full flow for the water to get hot and that was still the same. He didn't think that was a problem.

I've just had the same company attend because since a couple of weeks ago the water temperature became much hotter, and after turning the temperature control dial down it wasn't altering the temperature, whereas it used to.

This engineer said initially something about the diaphragm but that "we don't change them" because you can't re-seal the assembly. I told him they'd done it before but he insisted, and said he done it himself before but you can't get them to seal.


But he also said it shouldn't require running the tap so fast to turn the heater on and that the gas section would need replacing too and that might not be worth it; probably better to replace the whole appliance if we can't live with the hot water as it is. He said otherwise no problem to leave it be, as it's not dangerous.

Although he did seem a bit 'vague' about exactly what was wrong. He was a lot younger than the previous engineer. FWIW, they all work for the company according to the website i.e. no contractors.

We were charged £102 for a full service, but I'm pretty sure he didn't do anything other than take the casing off look around and vacuum around inside a lot. What *should* a service mean?

And who's right about replacing diaphragms?
Could the diaphragm seal have always been the problem with the flow rate? It was always like that though.

At the moment I'm leaving it.

 

[45yearsagasman]

One of the easiest multipoints to service IMO. Diaphragms are changed from underneath and the spindle / pushrod should be cleaned and greased as well.
The statement that they dont seal properly is complete garbage.

 

[expertgasman]

[quote="wetfeet";p="2055347"](This is a multipoint instantaneous water heater!)

LOL. I see you are the same bod who posted the recent query. Your fault description seems to have changed slightly.


This engineer said initially something about the diaphragm but that "we don't change them" because you can't re-seal the assembly.

Nonsense

But he also said it shouldn't require running the tap so fast to turn the heater on

Probably fair.
(Is the water flow very great)

and that the gas section would need replacing too
unlikely and WOULD be expensive


We were charged £102 for a full service, but I'm pretty sure he didn't do anything other than take the casing off look around and vacuum around inside a lot. What *should* a service mean?
Service manual for appliance does not show a service schedule, but when I did this work - years ago - we would strip the water section, inspect the diphragm and lubricate the push rod It is possible the push rod is sticking.

Whether a "service" should entail a full strip down is, to a certain degree, I suppose, subject to opinion. But if it is just a remove case and hoover, then I probably wouldn't bother paying for it.
Hindsight is wonderful, but I have no problems with my clients asking me what I do for our service fee, and in fact if we are in competion, I positively encourage it.


And who's right about replacing diaphragms?
NOT him

Could the diaphragm seal have always been the problem with the flow rate? It was always like that though.[/i]

NO

Wetfeet,

It was okay when we did a lot of that stuff, as we could carry a service pack for the common MP's, but if it is a one off, and you strip it down, without parts to hand, the MP may be out of action until bits are obtained. If I was to do one now, I would quote for the service INCLUDING a service pack, and leave the kit behind if they weren't neccessary, and they could be used on a subsequent visit.

 

[wetfeet]

...Your fault description seems to have changed slightly.

No, same thing: hotter water recently and temperature controller now doesn't do anything.

Although, it appears the need for a high flow rate to switch the heater on might have been a fault all along too; we need to run the tap almost fully open and always have done.

Anyway, now that's 2 of you saying he's wrong about the diaphragm. Not that I understand what the diaphragm's got to do with it anyway at the moment.

 

[tryitandsee]

I may be talking rubbish here but I've started on the beers already.


These little water heaters are IMO, fantastic.

Not a lot can go wrong. The water throttle/governor that reduces/increase the flow through the heat exchanger may need cleaning.
Turn off the cold water supply to the heater. Remove the governor situated in the base of the water section (large brass nut centre ish casing low down) Clean with water, check the spring loaded piston moves freely, replace in reverse order.

With regard the diaphragm, GC no. 263432, part No. 25809/20

Easy to change yourself if and when they perish, which they recommend to be every three years!

Will go on forever

 

[tryitandsee]

Recommended service

1. Clean the burner
2. Clean the heating body i.e. descale in hard water areas.
3. Clean the pilot and thermocouple.
4. Clean the gas and water filters.
5. Clean the governor.
6. Change the diaphragm every three years.

I would type out the whole instructions, but my eyes are starting to wander

 

[tryitandsee]

If ****es me off when someone can charge £102 for doing absolutely **** all!

 

[kevindgas]

i thought the same people round here grimace at a £50 service charge!!

 

[wetfeet]

Thanks gents.

I've found the manual and it's clear he didn't do what's in a service at all; didn't even turn the water and gas off. Think I'll ask for my money back. Even if he couldn't/didn't fancy fixing it, you can't go saying you've serviced something when you've none of it.

 

[Agile]

I see so few of these nowadays and they are mostly pilot light problems that I dont have that much experience of other difficulties apart from diaphragms because they are so reliable.

But if it needs a full tap flow to turn on then I would expect to find the push rod is sticking and needs cleaning and greasing.

Probably not on that model but I have experienced a problem getting the diaphragm to seal. But these units can be fiddly and sometimes the screws jam. Sometimes I have had no alternative other than to fit a new water section.

Tony

 

[wetfeet]

But as checking the diaphragm and replacing it every 3 years is part of the specified service procedure (once a year it says is usually adequate for the service), do you think it's reasonable to say it can't be done as part of a service, or -with all due respect- require a customer to pay for your inability to do it and need to fit an entire section when others confirm it can be done?

Recommended routine service from manual (including typos ):

1) Cleaning the burner, and pilot tube.
2) Cleaning the heat exchanger, and thermocouple.
3) Checking the gas controls.
4) Cleaning water fdter, and water governor.
5) Chek diaphragm and replace every 3 years.
The following schedules are recommended :
a) Check the function of appliance, burner pressure, gas ffow
rate and soundness.
b) Observe flame picture and undertake combustion test.
c) Check, clean or replace components as necessary.

Can someone tell me how much of this is possible without turning off the water nor the gas?

 

[Agile]

The water and gas need to be turned off AT the appliance!

Its obvious he did very little and charged a lot!

Its odd the list you have does not specifically mention cleaning and greasing the pin.

When a sticky pin gets severe, the gas stays on with no water flow and that fault is very frightening!

As these are so fiddly to work on I would not do a full strip down service at our standard boiler fee.

But they are so reliable I have to say just having them serviced whenever the diaphragm fails every five is what most people do and very cost effective.

Tony

 

[wetfeet]

Ah, so you can turn off water and gas *at* the appliance. That makes it harder to prove he didn't do anything.

But apart from his suspiciously diligent vacuum cleaning of the cover i.e. looking like trying to drag this out as long as possible, he wasn't alone with it for long and I'm sure he didn't disassemble anything.

Tony, searching the pdf for "grease/greasing", the only results are under fault finding:

Problem: Burner stays on
Cause: gas valve stays open
Remedy: clean and grease gas spindle.

Other grease results are user's gas control tap stuck due to dried grease - clean re-grease.

 

[tryitandsee]

Not a lot can go wrong. The water throttle/governor that reduces/increase the flow through the heat exchanger may need cleaning.
Turn off the cold water supply to the heater. Remove the governor situated in the base of the water section (large brass nut centre ish casing low down) Clean with water, check the spring loaded piston moves freely, replace in reverse order.

If you now have the manual and you feel confident, why don't you remove the governor and clean it. It really is not difficult to do. Turn water off and open hot tap at sink, watch out for surplus water escaping when you undo brass nut!

 

[Agile]

Tony, searching the pdf for "grease/greasing", the only results are under fault finding:

Problem: Burner stays on
Cause: gas valve stays open
Remedy: clean and grease gas spindle.

Well at least they acknowledge that its a known fault!

As the consequences of a sticking pin are so dire thats the most important part of a proper service in my view.

Tony Glazier