Shower tray not level?

[Salmon81]

Hi,
I’m not sure if this is in the right section.
We’ve had a plumber install a shower tray a few months ago whilst having an extension and remodel etc, it’s a low profile type bedded onto the floorboards using mortar or tile adhesive. I’ve since tanked the walls (from bottom to top) and the tiler has been in today and tiled the 3 walls around the tray. When he’d finished he said it had taken longer than expected as something isn’t level, I’ve since checked the shower tray which is an 800x1000mm and over the width it is about 15mm out of level. Is this something I should be concerned about? The tiler is back tomorrow to tile the floor!
If the tray needs adjusting this will mean the tanking will be ruined as it’ll mean the bottom row of tiles will have to come off and the tanking won’t be installed correctly as in the bottom section would be installed over the top section which is the wrong way to do it.
If all this needs to be done then who is liable for the cost to put it right (tiles, tiler, tanking etc.)
Would it be best to hold off the tiler until it’s resolved or will being 15mm out be ok?

Hope someone can give me some advice!

 

[KenGMac]

Salmon81. good evening.

An original rock and a hard place, then some??

OK is there a run on the level towards the outlet of the tray?

Is the visible gap between the floor and the top of the tray uniform over and around the tray?

Ken

 

[Madrab]

.

 

[Madrab]

Erm if you have a 15mm lean in a modern preformed/moulded shower tray then yup, that aint right.

It sounds almost like the installer has tried to put a run on the shower where the shower should have the fall moulded into it. Can you take a couple of pics showing the tray and the level on the edge. Can you notice the fall moulded into the base of the tray? The inner ridge would normally get deeper as it runs to the waste, like in the pic.

If so the tray should be fitted level, not with a fall on it.

 

[Salmon81]

Thanks for the reply’s,
The drain is at the rear centre of the tray, I’ve poured water onto the tray and although it does all flow to one side it does still drain most of the water away.
I’ve messaged the plumber who’s employee fitted it and he said someone must’ve stood on it before the adhesive had set (saying it’s our fault)

 

[dilalio]

Looking at this $hituation from a neutral (and remote) pov, my comments are...

Sounds like you are "running the job" as you have described your involvement in the construction process and have personally appointed the separate trades. Is this correct?

In which case, some of the onus is on you, to check work done by those you employ, before proceeding to the next stage. You really should have checked the tray for levels.

You say you tanked the walls yourself, after the tray was laid... How long after and did you put weight on the tray?

As part of his setting-out process, I would also expect the Tiler to have immediately discovered that the tray was not level and to have notified you, before proceeding to tile, so you need to have a conversation with him about that.

It could be that the tray was not bedded properly and sank, under its own weight, into the mortar, during curing, but if this was not checked and notified before proceeding with further works, liability is shifted.

I think you're going to have to bite the bullet on this one. You could try and do a deal with the Tiler as he "could" have halted the proceedings but you should also be aware that he would have been entitled to receive payment for a failed visit... He booked in a job, in good faith, that it was ready to tile.

You may not like my comments above, but I have tried to be fair and balanced.

 

[Madrab]

Well it's a hard to to refute I guess, especially if it's been a few months.

Without seeing it or being onsite it's pretty hard to gauge if it's going to be an issue going forward but that doesn't solve your issue. It may drain when water is poured into the tray but it's more a case of when the shower is running @ full pelt with someone in it, especially if it's low profile.

15mm over 800mm is quite a bit out but did the tiler not say to you when he was setting out, it should have been pretty apparent to him

 

[muggles]

15mm is a huge amount to be out by over three length of a tray, and how nobody noticed that just by looking at it I really don't know. It would have hurt my eyes as soon as I'd walked into the room, no spirit level required... trays should be fitted level, 1mm out end to end might be ok but with low profile trays you need to be really accurate. I'm truly amazed you didn't notice the problem while you were fitting the tanking as well.

As for who is liable, I think too much time has passed and your installer's reaction is exactly what I'd have expected it to be. If you'd reported it the day after and nobody else had been in the room then I think you'd have a case for making him change it, but nobody knows what happened immediately after installation any more. Equally, your tiler was just there to fit tiles to the room he'd been given, and did the job you asked him to do, so he's not to blame. You're going to have to take this one on the chin.

As for how to fix it, take it all out and start again would be my advice. The tile adhesive probably hasn't fully cured yet, so you'll be able to prise the tiles off without damage if you're quick, then clean them up. You'll probably crack these tray trying to take it up though, so be prepared to buy a new one. If you try to fit a screen to the existing one, it just won't work, they aren't designed with that much adjustment in mind

 

[Salmon81]

I’m surprised that people are saying that I should’ve checked and it’s not down to the plumber to put it right.
The back story is that we’ve had a 2 storey wrap round extension adding around 800 square feet to the house.
The job started in March and since day 1 we’ve had issues with getting the plumber to site, he stated before he started that he needs 2 weeks notice, sometimes we have had to wait 2 months, he turns up does a day or 2 and doesn’t finish what he said he’d do and then we’d have to wait until the next visit to carry on, this has held up the builder, plasterer and kitchen fitter as pipes hadn’t been fitted or missed out completely, I’ve had to put one of the pipes in myself as he’d left it coiled up in a stud wall ready to go under the floor but hadn’t been put through for some reason.
The house is from the 60’s, none of the floors are level, to look at it the tray looks level with the floor but not level with a spirit level.
The room where the tray has been fitted is an old bedroom that has been split into a bathroom and en-suite, after they had finished fitting the tray the rooms were left empty until they came back a month or so later so nobody had been in the room.
I think it’s strange how people on here are saying I should be checking the work? Why should the customer need to go round with a spirit level after a “competent” plumber has been round?
I’m and electrician by trade so should a customer go round and test the consumer unit themselves after I’ve installed one to double check my work? No! You are paying someone for there knowledge, skill and competence to do the job correctly otherwise I would do it myself.
The tiler started on the lower side of the tray and only noticed when he was working around the back, we weren’t in at the time and he said he just put it down the the walls being uneven.

A few of the other issues we’ve had with the plumber:
Radiators not measured corrected in a new plaster/painted wall and 4 holes drilled 200mm above the radiator.
Every radiator in the house has brackets with some of the screws not screwed all the way in with rounded off heads (we have the oval tube style so you can see the brackets)
The floorboards on the landing are dangerous, he’s cut the ends of the boards to fit pipes in for the new boiler so there is no way to support the end of the boards.
He’s cut 2 big holes in the dining room ceiling (12” square) to check for leaks on the shower trays and said it’s our job to put it right! He’s put so much filler on that the plaster said it’ll make it harder for him as all the filler needs to come out first.
He forgot to do something on one of the visits and then charged us extra on top of what it should’ve been as he had to make a special trip.
He’s fitted the wrong type of shower hose outlets in the wall, fitted 1/4 turn valves that were switched off and behind the plaster, the showers we have and told him about from the start are push fit (clearly shows it in the instructions) and he said we’d have to buy alternatives as once the tiles were on you’d never be able to get to them!

Overall I’m not impressed with the work or his lack of helpfulness shown, he will blame us for anything we mention and won’t do anything minor to help us out. The first night after he fitted a new boiler about 4 weeks ago we couldn’t get any heat out of the radiators, he blamed the wrong type of radiators were fitted and not suitable (he fitted the boiler and radiators) and that’s all he had to say about it, he’s not contacted us since to see if they are working or not, I’ve had to bleed them numerous times over the following week.

 

[Nige F]

Playing devil's advocate here - is the tray true and straight, yet out of level - OR bent like a banana ? They have been know to come out of a factory like that - no quality control there, it's left to the end user.

 

[Salmon81]

The tray is perfectly straight, I’ve had a long level across it and no signs of bananaring

 

[Nige F]

Plumber fitted a boiler - was he Gas Safe ? maybe not judging by his other capers. That's where you can have him .

 

[Salmon81]

Yes he’s gas safe and an approved installer for veissmann (boiler)
Think the issue is it’s not him doing most of the work but his colleague (didn’t fit the boiler) which is becoming very apparent isn’t very competent but can do no wrong in the bosses eye

 

[Madrab]

I must be honest, the minute problems started with the plumber then I would have either bumped him from the job or scrutinised his work and not payed him for anything that wasn't installed or working properly until it was corrected.

I appreciate what you say that a customer shouldn't have to check a professionals work and in most cases you are quite right but it does seem clear that things haven't been right from the get go and therefore maybe needed a closer eye kept on things.

If you can clearly prove that it was the installer that created any of the issues then you have every right to complain and have it put right. The issue you have with the tray is that the timescale since it was installed is too far out now to clearly prove one way or another.

Any items that are wrong/dangerous and that were obvious the installers poor workmanship, gives you a stronger case to have it sorted.

If it's that bad it may also be time to cut your losses and kick them off the job and find someone else.

 

[Salmon81]

We haven’t paid him for fitting the boiler yet, he sent an email yesterday saying that if it’s not paid by tomorrow then he’s won’t come back until it’s paid.
Problem is trying to find another plumber to take over someone else’s work
My wife is over 8 months pregnant and need it finishing!
I’m thinking about paying him for what he’s done so far and when he sends the next bill for fitting the bathroom suites I’ll say I’ll pay it when all the issues have been fixed.
There will be more plumbing work to do such as 3 kitchen sinks, outside tap etc but we know a retired plumber who said he’d be able to do them for us as we don’t what the other plumber back after next week.