Skirting Board - hidden screws

[Bondai]

Hi

Great site with some truly great advice on here. I have read quite a few helpful topics during the renovation of my house (into 2nd year now).

I am in desperate need for some advice on the below if anyone can help:

I have oak skirting boards and have attempted fixing using generous dabs of 'grip fill'. The problem is that the walls are slightly 'out' in places and with the oak boards being very rigid the longer lengths are just pulling themselves away from the wall despite being held in place by bricks for 7 days (I wanted to be sure they would not move).

So they have started to pull away from the walls and I now want to plug and screw them BUT I also want to ensure the screws are hidden by using a (counter sink bit ?? ).

I want to make plugs from the off cut skirting to cover the screws so there will be no sign of them but how am I going to make such perfect holes in the skirting (Im not talking about drilling all the way through but just to the depth of the counter sink and where the screw will start) and how am I going to create the plugs to fill these holes ? a hole saw will not do the job I need since it will simply cut a circle in the wood but I need the circle taken out of the wood to a depth of 5mm (not sure)?

You can by oak plugs but I want to use the same wood I have to ensure the best suited match.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[big-all]

you need countersink and plug bits
readily avalable from tool station /screwfix or any good hardware store

 

[gregers]

ive got a set of plug cutters similar to these,i use these in a pillar drill so i can run a few off at a time,you can use a spade bit to cut the hole use a depth stop on your drill if needed,then after screwing back to the wall you can fit the plugs either with the grain or make a feature by putting them in opposite direction.

 

[^woody^]

Use a plug cutter and cut these from the back of the skirting near to where the fixing will be , and this will give a good match to the grain.

But IMO, there is noting worse than wavy skirting fixed rigidly to a wall. Can't you let it lay straight and fill the top with some caulk or suchlike?

 

[Bondai]

Use a plug cutter and cut these from the back of the skirting near to where the fixing will be , and this will give a good match to the grain.

Exclelent advice - thanks guys - not that I have heard of plug cutters.
I'll ask my local for one tomorrow (depending on price )

But IMO, there is noting worse than wavy skirting fixed rigidly to a wall. Can't you let it lay straight and fill the top with some caulk or suchlike?

Are you referring to my question on the fixing
What's caulk ?

I have already cut the skirts to size and mitered externals and internals and profiled). Everything fits a treat (at least it did until they pulled themselves from the wall). The only problem is proving to be the fixing. And now u mention that fixing the lengths firmly to the wall could cause a wavey effect ??

I guess I just ensure the skirting is held firmly against the wall as hard as possible in the exact position so that when it gets plugged it doesnt move at all as its fastened ??

OMG Im supposed to be fixing them to the wall tomorrow. Am not looking fwd to the plug cutting and fixing.

Thanks all and apologies if you are sick of these same questions. I did search the forums and from the 800+ pages referencing skirting I couldnt find this topic.

 

[xerxes]

I think you will be fine, so long as you don't use the screws to pull the skirtings out of shape where the walls aren't straight. Shim behind the screws where necessary to keep the boards straight. If this leaves visible gaps, use decorator's caulk (filler in tubes) to make good.

When you cut the plugs, don't forget you need a pillar drill to do this, as Gregers says.

 

[DAZB]

Have a look here for a plug cutter :

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/J0510

and these are the plugs :

http://www.roundwoodtimber.com/index.asp?p=53&t=Timber+products&cat=Other+Products

 

[Kes]

Just how far away from the wall is the skirting, at its worst point? Is this gap fillable without looking silly? If so you don't want to drill and plug the skirting, the adhesive will do, won't it? Have you used a reutable adhesive and are you trying to stick the skirting to a reasonable sound base (ie not very crumbly plaster)?

If I drilled and plugged then I would be fearful of leaving obvious signs, no matter how careful I was. As oak is a grainy wood with quite strong markings, and will presumably be oiled or stained, then lost head nails would be an alternative, and may be less conspicuous.

Just think what you are going to achive before drilling, but as it's Friday you're probably at work now.

 

[Bondai]

Just how far away from the wall is the skirting, at its worst point? Is this gap fillable without looking silly? If so you don't want to drill and plug the skirting, the adhesive will do, won't it? Have you used a reutable adhesive and are you trying to stick the skirting to a reasonable sound base (ie not very crumbly plaster)?

If I drilled and plugged then I would be fearful of leaving obvious signs, no matter how careful I was. As oak is a grainy wood with quite strong markings, and will presumably be oiled or stained, then lost head nails would be an alternative, and may be less conspicuous.

Just think what you are going to achive before drilling, but as it's Friday you're probably at work now.

Thanks all

At its worst point the skirting currently in place on the walls has a 2.5mm gap behind it which graduates to 1mm and then nothing. The plaster is sound and new and to the eye looks perfect.

Still the oak skirtings simply wont hold with the 'Evo Grip' high strength adhesive I used (x2). On the 2nd attempt using this glue the skirts have pulled away again so thats why im using the plug method.

Ive been out this morning and bought myself a 9.5mm standard plug cutter (just like that one in the link to rutlands in above reply). Apparently this will fit to any chuck on a cordless drill. I also bought a 3.25mm counter sink bit for screw size 8 and 10 (it says 8 & 10 on the packet so am assuming screw sizes).

Still unsure why the guy gave me a 3.25 counter sink bit to use with a this 9.5mm plug cutter ?

I'm just getting confused by this now so without further a do Im going to practice on some scrap wood to see how these tools fare.

I'll take pictures once all is complete and will post because I'm sure you will like to know how your advice has translated.

Much appreciated all this advice. I'm amased by the support.

Ok Virgin radio is on and off I go.

 

[big-all]

3.25 will be the drill bit size [3.25mm]

 

[Symptoms]

Bond - as you will probably have discovered by now your 'counter-sink' bit has to be driven deeper into the timber than a traditional surface countersink so as to produce a COUNTERBORED hole (say about 8mm deep and with parallel walls. The base of this counterbored hole will be countersunk to accept the screw. It's the counterbored section that is filled with the glued plug.

Another couple of tips when using these wooden plugs: ensure the plug's grain runs in the same direction as the skirting; leave the glued plugs a little proud of the skirting surface 'till the glue dries then pare/or sand them level.

Yes, it is easier to produce the plugs in a bench drill/clamp/vice combo (which prevents the plug cutter from skidding about) but it is possible to do it without. The trick is to prevent the skidding ... fashion a drilling jig from a scrap of ply; this jig can either have a guide hole bored through it into which the plug cutter can fit, or it can be in the shaped a letter L where you use the internal angle as support to prevent the skidding action. This jig is layed over the plug material and stood on to hold in place, then you drill down.

 

[gregers]

I have already cut the skirts to size and mitered externals and internals and profiled)

i do hope you have only mitred the externals and not the internals??because the internals need to be scribed so to ensure a very tight joint/fit.
the reason is when mitred they could open up through shrinkage.

 

[Bondai]

I have already cut the skirts to size and mitered externals and internals and profiled)

i do hope you have only mitred the externals and not the internals??because the internals need to be scribed so to ensure a very tight joint/fit.
the reason is when mitred they could open up through shrinkage.

Oh dear...

The external joins have been mitred with no profiling. The profiles matched togther where they meet each other.

The internal joins have been mitred and then profiled. I was advised to do this (take the back off the join) to allow for variants in the wall angles because not all corners in the room are perfect 90 degrees.

It seems to have worked out alright.

The biggest problem doing this job has been trying to deal with the walls not being a vertical 90 degress. They all seem to have a very slight angle to them and the skirting (therfore) has a very slight angle to it.

I have tried to ensure each length remains straight horizonatally as whilst screwing I noticed the srews pull the skirting tight against the wall - following the slight undulations of the wall contour which looked odd.

So...
Where there was 1mm / 2mm gaps behind the skirting I have maintained these (although not ideal) as screwing the skirting tight just made it look a little wavey.

 

[DAZB]

A few mm gap is either here nor there really but if it bothers you then I suggest using a matching oak sealant like the ones used on flooring jobs.....

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Adh...Laminate+Sealant+310ml+Oak/d180/sd2350/p73688

 

[maltaron]

Probably a bit late with this post but will give advice anyway. First, do not use steel screws in oak - they will stain blue - use brass. Secondly, if you have a very sharp 1/2" chisel, it is possible to lift a small flap of timber, drill. countersink and screw, glue back the flap. Sand flush, or use a cabinet scraper, and it will be invisible.