Skirting techniques.
- Thread starter Northbeach
- Start date
Sponsored Links
i've been looking at the arguments from both sides here and have concluded that joe 90 don't know jack s**t about wood or its properties. wood shrinks very little down the grain.....full stop. EVERYONE that works with wood knows this!
stop diggin holes joe, give it a rest.
Sponsored Links
- Joined
- 28 Oct 2005
- Messages
- 31,281
- Reaction score
- 1,997
- Country
noseall said:
It's you that's in the hole mate. If timber doesn't shrink over its length then it matters not whether it is scribed or mitred does it?
It would only shrink across its width which would simply mean that the skirting would get slightly smaller. It WOULD'NT shrink away from the mitres.
Is your name really 'nose-nuthin'?
joe
The reasons for scribing:-
1) if the internal angle is not quite90% this will not affect the scribe as all you have to do is sightly under cut the back edge of the scribe to fit.
2)if you are cutting a external mitre one end of the skirting the other end should be square cut on the internal ,and the other piece of skirting scribed .the reason being ,if the square cut has been cut short by a few mm's this will not affect the scribe
3)the full lenghts of skirting that are scribed can be cut a few mm's longer ensuring a good tight fit
4)if the skirting is out of plumb the scribed skirting can be trimmed to fit
5)the skirting can be fixed as you go
The reasons for not mitreing internal angles on skirting:-
1) this is the most important one ,if you cut 2 45s this relies on the angle being exsactly 90% if is not the joint will not be good.Therefore BOTH 45s will have to be trimmed to get a good fit Abit TIME consuming and fiddly would you agree
2)If the skirting has a external mitre one end and the internal on the other end is cut short by a couple of mm thematching mitre will not fit without a lot of fiddling about with the joint.A bit time cosuming ,don't you agree .
3) full lenghts of skirting cannot be over cut a few mms longer as the mitres will not meet up they have to be cut exsact
4)if the skirting is out of plumb both miters have to be trimmed to get a good joint ,A bit time consuming don't you think
5)This one is quite common and is due to a few factors,when you fix skirting it will pull tight to the wall,if the plaster is soft and you have not got the mitres up tight before you fix them the joint will pull apart when it is fixed.
6) you cannot really fix any off the skirting with internal mitres until you have tried the joints together to make sure you are not going to have any off the above problems A bit time consuming don't you think
Lastly the great debate about shrinkage ,you are right timber shrinks more over itswidth and thickness more than it's lenght .That is were the problem lies with mitred internal angles.as already mentioned because it shrinks in the thichness this will show on the front of the joint ,only a small point but worth mentioning
Thats all I can thik of at the moment
1) if the internal angle is not quite90% this will not affect the scribe as all you have to do is sightly under cut the back edge of the scribe to fit.
2)if you are cutting a external mitre one end of the skirting the other end should be square cut on the internal ,and the other piece of skirting scribed .the reason being ,if the square cut has been cut short by a few mm's this will not affect the scribe
3)the full lenghts of skirting that are scribed can be cut a few mm's longer ensuring a good tight fit
4)if the skirting is out of plumb the scribed skirting can be trimmed to fit
5)the skirting can be fixed as you go
The reasons for not mitreing internal angles on skirting:-
1) this is the most important one ,if you cut 2 45s this relies on the angle being exsactly 90% if is not the joint will not be good.Therefore BOTH 45s will have to be trimmed to get a good fit Abit TIME consuming and fiddly would you agree
2)If the skirting has a external mitre one end and the internal on the other end is cut short by a couple of mm thematching mitre will not fit without a lot of fiddling about with the joint.A bit time cosuming ,don't you agree .
3) full lenghts of skirting cannot be over cut a few mms longer as the mitres will not meet up they have to be cut exsact
4)if the skirting is out of plumb both miters have to be trimmed to get a good joint ,A bit time consuming don't you think
5)This one is quite common and is due to a few factors,when you fix skirting it will pull tight to the wall,if the plaster is soft and you have not got the mitres up tight before you fix them the joint will pull apart when it is fixed.
6) you cannot really fix any off the skirting with internal mitres until you have tried the joints together to make sure you are not going to have any off the above problems A bit time consuming don't you think
Lastly the great debate about shrinkage ,you are right timber shrinks more over itswidth and thickness more than it's lenght .That is were the problem lies with mitred internal angles.as already mentioned because it shrinks in the thichness this will show on the front of the joint ,only a small point but worth mentioning
Thats all I can thik of at the moment
Joe, people are trying to tell you that wood shrinks across it's grain, shrinkage along the grain is negligable. This means that when skirting shrinks it decreases in height and thickness but not really in length. Due to the decrease in thickness, internal mitres open up but external ones don't.
You talk of doors shrinking across their width but this is because the stiles of the door are shrinking across their grain. As the stiles do not shrink along the grain this is why doors don't shrink in height. This is why doors are made with panels. The movement in a laminated door would make it useless in most cases, but when the panels in a door move it doesn't affect the overall dimensions.
All wood shrinks as it dries and expands when it absorbs moisture, regardless of where you buy it. Timber from the woodyard may shrink more as it is wetter to begin with, it may not be kiln-dried or it may be kept in unheated conditions before you buy it.
Just because you disagree with everyone doesn't mean they are wrong.
You talk of doors shrinking across their width but this is because the stiles of the door are shrinking across their grain. As the stiles do not shrink along the grain this is why doors don't shrink in height. This is why doors are made with panels. The movement in a laminated door would make it useless in most cases, but when the panels in a door move it doesn't affect the overall dimensions.
All wood shrinks as it dries and expands when it absorbs moisture, regardless of where you buy it. Timber from the woodyard may shrink more as it is wetter to begin with, it may not be kiln-dried or it may be kept in unheated conditions before you buy it.
Just because you disagree with everyone doesn't mean they are wrong.
- Joined
- 28 Oct 2005
- Messages
- 31,281
- Reaction score
- 1,997
- Country
Sorry guys but timber barely shrinks after it is acclimatised in a room. It will not shrink in thickness at all.
As for walls being out of square (as recesses usually are) I simply use a sliding bevel, measure the angle and adjust the mitre.
Let's face it if bevels were so bad you wouldn't be able to use them for external angles either, for all the reasons that you have stated, and not only that, an opened up bevel at the leading external angle would look far worse that a hidden away internal bevel.
Bevels are used everywhere in carpentry, timber is used everywhere in housebuilding yet you don't see gaping gaps everywhere do you?
Once acclimatised timber is very stable, but you should know this if you are genuine woodworkers.
I trust that you all have plastic windows?
joe
As for walls being out of square (as recesses usually are) I simply use a sliding bevel, measure the angle and adjust the mitre.
Let's face it if bevels were so bad you wouldn't be able to use them for external angles either, for all the reasons that you have stated, and not only that, an opened up bevel at the leading external angle would look far worse that a hidden away internal bevel.
Bevels are used everywhere in carpentry, timber is used everywhere in housebuilding yet you don't see gaping gaps everywhere do you?
Once acclimatised timber is very stable, but you should know this if you are genuine woodworkers.
I trust that you all have plastic windows?
joe
In short, big-all explained it succinctly like this :
"EXTERNAL MITRES CLOSE up with shrinkage as the wood shrinks towards the wall thus pulling the mitre tighter, whereas with INTERNAL MITRES both surfaces are pulling back towards the wall so it OPENS twice as much as they are moving at right angles against each other."
End of story, Goodnight Vienna !
"EXTERNAL MITRES CLOSE up with shrinkage as the wood shrinks towards the wall thus pulling the mitre tighter, whereas with INTERNAL MITRES both surfaces are pulling back towards the wall so it OPENS twice as much as they are moving at right angles against each other."
End of story, Goodnight Vienna !
Joe, wood expands and contracts all the time. You can't see it. You can only see gaps in skirting incorrectly jointed after many many years of slow drying out from central heating systems. That's why you should try to keep antique furniture away from heavily centrally heated rooms. You're right in that natural atmospheric conditions alone won't make much noticeable difference. It's only after a long, long time of modern central heating.
Picture this, scene from The Apprentice....
(Sir Alan) "Can you send Joe in now please Dianne..."
(Sir Alan) "Joe ?"
(Joe 90) "Yes, Sir Alan ?"
(Sir Alan) "Joe, You're a numpty lightweight, YOU'RE FIRED !!??!"
Fade to black.
Picture this, scene from The Apprentice....
(Sir Alan) "Can you send Joe in now please Dianne..."
(Sir Alan) "Joe ?"
(Joe 90) "Yes, Sir Alan ?"
(Sir Alan) "Joe, You're a numpty lightweight, YOU'RE FIRED !!??!"
Fade to black.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
